Treading Our way to the Trade Deadline. Part 2 - Page 7

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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Masai's patience on making trades?
Yes, We need to look for the best trade possible even if it puts us in No mans land 33 58.93%
NO, he is taking way too long to assess the situation, he needs to blow this up now! 10 17.86%
NO! It is obvious we should make trades ASAP to give us a push for the Playoffs! 2 3.57%
I have exams/work to do and don't give a crap. Go with the Flow 11 19.64%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2013, 11:15 AM   #121 (permalink)
believin' in Masai.

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Yeah, man, I hear you. I understand what you're saying, at one point when Rudy was still here, I stated that tanking looks like our only viable option.

We need to talk about CAP. Why the shit are we going into luxury tax? Are our contracts that inflated? It doesn't seem to equate to the amount of talent we have on deck.

Fields needs to go. That should be our next project to be honest.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:53 AM   #122 (permalink)
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I get wanting to watch good basketball, I'm just willing to sacrifice an ok team now for a chance at a great team in the future.
+1

This.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:53 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Yeah, man, I hear you. I understand what you're saying, at one point when Rudy was still here, I stated that tanking looks like our only viable option.

We need to talk about CAP. Why the shit are we going into luxury tax? Are our contracts that inflated? It doesn't seem to equate to the amount of talent we have on deck.

Fields needs to go. That should be our next project to be honest.
Fields and Novak both need to go.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:22 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Fields and Novak both need to go.
I agree about Novak, but Fields will be expiring next season, he could be nice trade chip even with that big contract. So unless we are planning to spend in the FA this summer, Fields can stay.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:45 PM   #125 (permalink)
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I believe in Masai, and the future, and don't need to fool myself into thinking some draft pick becoming Lebron is the only means to that belief being realized.

Let's look at how your "franchise players" are needed for a championship. That's really not at all accurate. Look at those players that got it done. They were far more than "franchise players" or "elite" players or "superstars". They were great players that developed a tremendous will to win it all, and forced themselves to sacrifice and find the highest possible level of play, mentally and physically, within themselves. And they lead a well-balanced and committed team alongside them. I think there is a complete lack of appreciation for that in all the tank talk. Getting to that level is an extremely arduous task that goes so far beyond merely accumulating talent, and that is why it is so important not to undermine the process of assessing and adding to the talent level while laying a cultural foundation that can be built upon in multiple ways over time. If you want to sabotage the efforts of your own players, then it should be at a point where wins have absolutely no pertinent value. Otherwise there will be a carryover. There is a residue of winning as well as a residue of losing. There are habits that can translate in good and bad ways as players are moved in and out of a lineup. Will any of that lead to the golden days of championships that are constantly referred to here? Who knows? Really. The Pistons did it that way, and though alone in recent history, there were other well-constructed teams that had solid chances over the years, and I would have no problem witnessing such a thing happening here. To me it would be a close second to seeing the sort of individual heights along with teamwork that are the rarest of all in being able to surpass all the others.

I mentioned recent history, because if you look at the teams that won in the 70's - they were all pretty much built upon team first principles, and the huge stars had real trouble getting to the finish line. Then the Sixers team in the early 80's was a bunch of great vets on the decline with a Moses Malone that could not win on his own, and who was able to acquire a tremendous drive from the culture of the team that surrounded him. The bad boy Pistons relied on the efforts of a bunch of blue-collar guys as great as Isiah was. The Mavericks were not unlike that - a veteran-laden team that relied on a Jason Terry as much, if not more than a Dirk or Kidd when it came to getting it done in the finals. And the Bulls teams that won the last 3 in particular, were so much more than Jordan. There is just so much more to mine from the history the game than what is being suggested here. And the competitive drive involved, even for those that do not quite get there, is what makes sports worthwhile. You take that away and I really have no interest any longer. Some here will celebrate if we land a high pick. I will need to see a lot more than that, because as much as I can appreciate the potential talent injection involved, that does not mean all that much in the end.

Last edited by LX; 12-27-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:20 PM   #126 (permalink)
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yes, thank you for confirming my point. The last time you recall an elite player drafted in late lottery was in the 90s. And we won't draft in late lottery, we'll draft outside the lottery. So looks like we're in agreement that we have no chance of getting a star this way.
It's not quite that simple. Tony Parker is one of the elite PGs in the game, and he was taken 28th overall in 2001.

There was a point where Danny Granger, taken 17th overall in 2005, was considered an elite player until his knees went kaput.

Rondo was taken 21st overall in 2006 and Lowry 24th that same year.

Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, and Jeff Teague - taken 17, 18, and 19 in 2009 - may not be elite players, but they're pretty darn good players.

I think Paul George is an elite player, and he was taken 10th overall in 2010. He's definitely a top-3 MVP candidate this year.

If all the expected underclassmen declare, this year's draft will be deep. Yeah, there are a handful of blue-chip prospects, but the odds of getting a very good player are quite high. This year's draft isn't like the awful 2000 draft; instead, it could combine two of the best drafts of the last decade - the famed but top-heavy 2003 class (James, Melo, Bosh, Wade) and the deep 2004 class (Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Jameer Nelson, JR Smith, Tony Allen, Kevin Martin, Anderson Varej„o all were taken at #15 or lower).
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:35 PM   #127 (permalink)
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none of those players are 1st tier, very good players but not top 10. George is the only one that qualifies and he's a bit of a special case because had he not grow 2 inches after he got drafted, he would be nowhere near as good. Tony Parker is borderline and he is another very special case that is unlikely to ever happen again he was drafted just before the international players started to get some recognition and was still possible to find late gems.

We don't need (just) a very good player, we need an elite player to anchor the team. Without it, we'll be limited to a 2nd tier team, regardless of how well MU runs the team or the quality of the coach or the culture or whatever.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:09 PM   #128 (permalink)
is getting to the line..

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ITS TIME TO TANK PEOPLE..

The teams a joke around the league and we need a top pick to get on the correct path to being a respectable team.

Since Bosh was drafted (A DECADE AGO) we've had one pick that's in the top 3. We all know how that turned out.

Everyone who is looking for that Paul George diamond in the 10-16th spot is blind to what this team has been the last few years.

This team has never gone through a "PROPER" rebuild ever... bandage fixes just trying to make the post season which have mostly been unsuccessful.

To turn this thing around we need to sell whatever player assets (minus JV) this team has and re-build properly like OKC.

How this is apparently not clear to some people here is beyond me...

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Old 12-27-2013, 02:14 PM   #129 (permalink)
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ITS TIME TO TANK PEOPLE..

The teams a joke around the league and we need a top pick to get on the correct path to being a respectable team.

Since Bosh was drafted (A DECADE AGO) we've had one pick that's in the top 3. We all know how that turned out.

Everyone who is looking for that Paul George diamond in the 10-16th spot is blind to what this team has been the last few years.

This team has never gone through a "PROPER" rebuild ever... bandage fixes just trying to make the post season which have mostly been unsuccessful.

To turn this thing around we need to sell whatever player assets (minus JV) this team has and re-build properly like OKC.

How this is apparently not clear to some people here is beyond me...

This team will not be tanking. And people not seeing things the way you do means everyone here can make up their own damn mind on what they want to see.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:26 PM   #130 (permalink)
We going to the 2nd rd!

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Its crazy to think that the Raptors may be the 3rd best team in the East, with a .500 record at years end, with Horford likely being out long term now.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:30 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Its crazy to think that the Raptors may be the 3rd best team in the East, with a .500 record at years end, with Horford likely being out long term now.
The East this year is obviously a clear indication of what the East will be like for the next 2-4 years.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:16 PM   #132 (permalink)
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One thing that i'm finding really problematic with the conference imbalance is that it is reinforced through draft position. A very good team like the Warriors could be in the lottery ahead of four or five teams in the east that should really be picking ahead of them. Now that's particularly off-kilter this season, but if you think about it, the effect has been at work for more than a decade. Not only is there a couple teams in the east every year that don't get in the lottery ahead of better teams out west, but those teams in the lottery out west will tend to have more losses from playing more games against stronger teams, thus elevating their position in the lottery over some of those in the east. I think the Raptors losing out on Barnes by a coin flip is a good example of this. Golden State didn't really tank until the end of that season, but piled up more losses than they probably would have had they played eastern conference teams 3 or 4 times each.

I think they need to look at changing eligibility to the lottery according to gaining a playoff seeding and make the cutoff some other mean that would allow some eastern playoff teams to be in the lottery ahead of non-playoff western teams. Probably the most fair thing to do would be a 30 team lottery weighted according to records. Or maybe weight it according to records against .500 teams or something like that somehow.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:53 PM   #133 (permalink)
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The East this year is obviously a clear indication of what the East will be like for the next 2-4 years.
I'm confused by the winky face. Do you think every team (or even 5) will really turn it around in two years?

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Old 12-27-2013, 04:59 PM   #134 (permalink)
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I'm confused by the winky face. Do you think every team (or even 5) will really turn it around in one or two years?
No but I don't think the East will continue to be like this for the next 2-4 years. Depends what you mean by "turn it around". I do expect more than 3 teams at 500 or higher to be the 8 EC playoff teams next season. Hopefully Charlotte, Washington and Detroit can improve to .500 by the end of the season.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:34 PM   #135 (permalink)
We going to the 2nd rd!

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And were officially the 3rd best team in the east. Horford, as expected, is out for the season.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:20 PM   #136 (permalink)
We going to the 2nd rd!

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Beal looks like hes gonna be out long term after an apparent knee injury.

To the 3 seed we go.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:24 PM   #137 (permalink)
Keep it simple

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20th pick in the draft here we come?
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:01 PM   #138 (permalink)
firing casey before 2014

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20th pick in the draft here we come?

this.


we need to move people now. it's extremely frustrating.


2nd round of playoffs 2014 means nothing if we don't get great pieces around JV for the next decade.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:05 AM   #139 (permalink)
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this.


we need to move people now. it's extremely frustrating.


2nd round of playoffs 2014 means nothing if we don't get great pieces around JV for the next decade.
Ridiculous. So what you are saying is that playoff experience means shit and we need to secure the next decade or so?! That simple.

Last edited by Tommy C; 12-28-2013 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:10 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Ridiculous. So what you are saying is that playoff experience means shit and we need to secure the next decade or so?! That simple.
I agree with you man. As great as getting a decent pick would be we also need some playoff experience. People tend to forget that we can rebuild and have a decent core all we want, it's no god to wait for 3+ years to get playoff experience. Get it now and move on.
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