Treading Our way to the Trade Deadline. Part 2 - Page 4

Go Back   Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards > NBA Discussion > Toronto Raptors

View Poll Results: Do you agree with Masai's patience on making trades?
Yes, We need to look for the best trade possible even if it puts us in No mans land 33 58.93%
NO, he is taking way too long to assess the situation, he needs to blow this up now! 10 17.86%
NO! It is obvious we should make trades ASAP to give us a push for the Playoffs! 2 3.57%
I have exams/work to do and don't give a crap. Go with the Flow 11 19.64%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-23-2013, 10:23 PM   #61 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,617
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
Was about to but didn't. No reasonable GM will trade that for a rental.
I'd still take Hardaway Jr and Felton for Lowry
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 10:43 PM   #62 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,799
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I'd still take Hardaway Jr and Felton for Lowry
Me too, but they wanted to throw MWP to the deal as well. Felton isn't gonna be needed or wanted here though.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 11:15 PM   #63 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Although I'd loathe taking on Felton's deal, it would mean that the raps wouldn't have to waste $ on a backup PG.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 03:16 AM   #64 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,561
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Although I'd loathe taking on Felton's deal, it would mean that the raps wouldn't have to waste $ on a backup PG.
Um yes they would. Felton does nothing but get injured every game he plays.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 11:45 AM   #65 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,047
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
If he does nothing it means that we have a 6-10th seed in an atrocious East with arguably its best player expiring and if you resign him you're over the cap, if you don't your team is immediately much worse. If they don't make the playoffs they have a 12th pick in a draft where if they had a top 5 pick they could be set for the next 10 years with a franchise player.

All of those scenarios are wastes.
Playoff experience for Val, DD, Ross, etc. is invaluable and, therefore, not a waste. Depending on the team's record and how they perform in the playoffs could also make Toronto more enticing for future free agents to sign with the Raptors. Lowry's value is driven up if he has a great season, making sign-and-trade scenarios more plausible and, thus, the Raptors still get some assets in return.

I'm not for nor against the idea of a tank; I'm just showing that there are pros and cons to both scenarios.
Northern Neighbour is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 11:55 AM   #66 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Why take the risk of a S+T at all? When he's a UFA he won't owe this franchise anything. He'll be dealt as opposed to losing him for nothing. The other option is extending him. S+Ts rarely net anything of value and are risky.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 12:13 PM   #67 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,047
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Why take the risk of a S+T at all? When he's a UFA he won't owe this franchise anything. He'll be dealt as opposed to losing him for nothing. The other option is extending him. S+Ts rarely net anything of value and are risky.
If MU is looking for some expiring contracts and a future first-round pick for Lowry now, he'll likely be able to net that in a S&T scenario. There are also only a few teams that have a PG hole and the cap space next year to sign Lowry outright.
Northern Neighbour is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 12:20 PM   #68 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
If MU is looking for some expiring contracts and a future first-round pick for Lowry now, he'll likely be able to net that in a S&T scenario. There are also only a few teams that have a PG hole and the cap space next year to sign Lowry outright.
With a S+T you're just making things ridiculously harder on yourself. Have to find a team that needs that PG, have to be able to do the s+t, have to hope that the team has anything, and I mean anything to give up, even a top 55 protected pick. Have to make sure that all the finances and logistics work out. Deal before or at the deadline, OR extend.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 12:38 PM   #69 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,617
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
If MU is looking for some expiring contracts and a future first-round pick for Lowry now, he'll likely be able to net that in a S&T scenario. There are also only a few teams that have a PG hole and the cap space next year to sign Lowry outright.
Teams usually get nothing in sign and trades. We'd be lucky to get a 2nd rounder and a TPE.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 12:53 PM   #70 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,047
Representing:
Default

If Brandon Jennings could net Brandon Knight, Khris Middleton, and Slava Kratsov in a sign-and-trade deal this off-season, Lowry should be able to net some decent assets in return.

Tyreke Evans and a 2nd landed Vasquez and 2 2nds.

S&T deals can net some decent assets. Obviously, MU should try to deal Lowry by the deadline, as his value will likely be at its highest at that point. But if there isn't a deal to be had, then keep Lowry and decide in the off-season whether to extend him or explore a S&T deal. If Lowry walks, then the team has cap space. But given the deals MU has made, I think he'll be able to fetch a decent return for Lowry - either at the deadline or through a S&T scenario.
Northern Neighbour is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 01:05 PM   #71 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,755
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I'd still take Hardaway Jr and Felton for Lowry
I think we can get more for Lowry
halphbreedballer is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 10:57 PM   #72 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,617
Representing:
Default

I'm still just baffled how people can still be in favour of the treadmill.

Is it really worth it to make the playoffs for one year by default, knowing you have no chance to contend with this core now or in the future, and allow other teams who tank this year to add a good player through the draft and pass you in 2 years, when you finally realize the core sucks?
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 11:00 PM   #73 (permalink)
in Houstatlantavegas

Presidential
 
Thug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,569
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I'm still just baffled how people can still be in favour of the treadmill.

Is it really worth it to make the playoffs for one year by default, knowing you have no chance to contend with this core now or in the future, and allow other teams who tank this year to add a good player through the draft and pass you in 2 years, when you finally realize the core sucks?
Just playing devils advocate here, but what if making the playoff this year attracts young quality free agents to sign?
Thug is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 11:19 PM   #74 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,353
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I'm still just baffled how people can still be in favour of the treadmill.

Is it really worth it to make the playoffs for one year by default, knowing you have no chance to contend with this core now or in the future, and allow other teams who tank this year to add a good player through the draft and pass you in 2 years, when you finally realize the core sucks?
Is it so hard to believe that it's possible to build a quality team without tanking for top picks for 3-4 years?

You learn to crawl before you can walk.... and then walk before you can run.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 11:22 PM   #75 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,617
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thug View Post
Just playing devils advocate here, but what if making the playoff this year attracts young quality free agents to sign?
Doubt that it would but even if it did, it would be too bad since we'll only have 5 million dollars in cap room, without cap holds. If we get rid of Lowry we won't make the playoffs and it's safe to assume that if we do make the playoffs Lowry will be resigned since Masai would never let an asset go for nothing. With a Lowry extension of 8-10mil that cap room shrinks, even if we buy out Salmons.

Last edited by KoolAid; 12-24-2013 at 11:34 PM.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 11:30 PM   #76 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,617
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Is it so hard to believe that it's possible to build a quality team without tanking for top picks for 3-4 years?

You learn to crawl before you can walk.... and then walk before you can run.
It's not, but that would involve being well under the cap and having room for a max free agent which we don't have, and getting lucky with a later pick which is not something you want to bet your franchise's success on.

And continuing with the metaphor, it's not going to ever learn to walk if the it has no legs...what we have here is no legs. It can crawl all it wants but it will never be able to walk, much less run, unless it gets lucky and somebody wants to give it some free prosthetics, which would in this case be somebody trading their franchise player in exchange for the assets we have which are not worth one bar maybe JV and our pick.

Last edited by KoolAid; 12-25-2013 at 01:12 AM.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 11:56 PM   #77 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,353
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
It's not, but that would involve being well under the cap and having room for a max free agent which we don't have, and getting lucky with a later pick which is not something you want to bet your franchise's success on.

And continuing with the metaphor (forgive the graphic images), it's not going to ever learn to walk if the baby has no legs...what we have here is no legs. It can crawl all it wants but it will never be able to walk, much less run, unless it gets lucky and somebody wants to give it some free prosthetics, which would in this case be somebody trading their franchise player in exchange for the assets we have which are not worth one bar maybe JV and our pick.
I don't believe that we're a "leg-less" team. To me, that's NYK. A star who's becoming a FA.... no picks... playing bad bball... not much talent... and capped out. THAT's leg-less.

Remember that Masai is not BC. This is Year 1 of the new regime... and thus far it seems as though we finally have someone at the helm who knows what he's doing.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2013, 01:11 AM   #78 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,617
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I don't believe that we're a "leg-less" team. To me, that's NYK. A star who's becoming a FA.... no picks... playing bad bball... not much talent... and capped out. THAT's leg-less.

Remember that Masai is not BC. This is Year 1 of the new regime... and thus far it seems as though we finally have someone at the helm who knows what he's doing.
We have no star at all, not much talent (if New York doesn't we sure don't), and are just about capped out. 3/5 ain't bad

Masai might not be BC but this story is playing out an awful lot like the last one. Exec of the year comes here, inherits a decent team but it definitely isn't a contender, and has a choice to make. We've already seen what happens when the GM tries to rebuild without losing, would rather not try that again.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2013, 05:37 PM   #79 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,291
Representing:
Default

in this league, you don't win without elite players. Just because it happened once, doesn't make it any less so. Every season, the top 4-5 teams are all anchored by 1-2 top 10 players. Always was, always will be. Anybody who questions that is, in my opinion, fooling themselves.

And, while it's possible to get that elite player through late lottery or free agency, chances are you will not. And it's not even a factor of your GM being great, because, for the most part, it's out of his hands. It's so rare for elite players to slip through the cracks and if there are no elite players where you draft, then you're out of luck. Not to mention that you have to miss the playoffs in order to have even that slight chance - can't recall anybody really good drafted outside lottery in recent memory. You can get very good players like bledsoe or rondo, but not top 10 talents.

So, if we don't tank this year, it's nearly certain that we will never get that type of talent. We'll just have to settle for East's version of Denver, a good team who wins 50 games and has a shot to win a playoff round every season. Which would make it the best Raptor team ever of course. And, in 6-7 years, we'll get another chance to rebuild and maybe we'll do it properly then.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2013, 09:40 PM   #80 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,353
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
We have no star at all, not much talent (if New York doesn't we sure don't), and are just about capped out. 3/5 ain't bad

Masai might not be BC but this story is playing out an awful lot like the last one. Exec of the year comes here, inherits a decent team but it definitely isn't a contender, and has a choice to make. We've already seen what happens when the GM tries to rebuild without losing, would rather not try that again.
Uh.... how do you figure? So far Masai has gotten RID OF 2 overpriced, overrated players (while bringing back some decent assets in return and shedding salary) instead of ADDING dead weight like that to the roster. That alone is about as far away from BC as you can be.

Can you (or any other pro tanker) point to a GM who's come in and WILLINGLY stripped his team of all assets just to ensure a high pick in the draft? It happens on occasion due to injury... but on purpose? I don't think so.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24