trading first round pick
Old 01-22-2013, 01:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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so apparently the grizzlies just traded a 1st round pick to the cavs, but they already owe minesotta a future first (first outside the lottery). That creates a possibility that they may be without 1st rounders in consecutive years, which presumably adds an implicit condition to either of those two trades that the pick can only be given if it's legal under the CBA. This, in turn, implies that we would be allowed to trade future picks as well.

am I missing something?
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I didn't hear that the pick being sent to Cleveland was a first rounder for sure. But assuming that's true....

Yes, you're missing something. And it's been explained many times, first by DanH (thank you for that) and then repeated by me as people keep bringing it up. Honestly, this should be stickied at this point.

Our pick is different because it has that pesky reverse protection that lasts for so long.

So, there are two rules that create a problem:
1- the rule that prevents a team from going two years in a row without a 1st round pick.
2-the rule that prevents a team from trading away 1st round picks SEVEN YEARS in advance.

In the case of Memphis, the pick obligation only lasts until 2016. If Minnesota has not received the pick by the 2016 draft, the right to the 1st round pick is extinguished and they get 2nd rounder instead. So, this is important, because it allows Memphis to trade a 1st round pick away using language that says something like "first available pick after the obligation to Minnesota is extinguished". So, suppose the pick does not go to Minnesota until 2016. That's okay, because Memphis could still send a pick to Cleveland in 2018. That's within the seven year rule.

Now, in the case of the Raptors, our obligation to convey a 1st round pick to OKC could last until 2018, at least in theory , because of the various forms of protection on the pick. So, there is always the possibility of violating the consecutive years rule and the seven years rule. For example, what if the pick fell within the protection zone all the way until 2018? In order to avoid the consecutive years rule, the Raps would only be able to convey a pick 2020. But, by doing so, they end up violating the seven years rule, since they can't trade a 1st round pick that far in advance.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
I didn't hear that the pick being sent to Cleveland was a first rounder for sure. But assuming that's true....

Yes, you're missing something. And it's been explained many times, first by DanH (thank you for that) and then repeated by me as people keep bringing it up. Honestly, this should be stickied at this point.

Our pick is different because it has that pesky reverse protection that lasts for so long.

So, there are two rules that create a problem:
1- the rule that prevents a team from going two years in a row without a 1st round pick.
2-the rule that prevents a team from trading away 1st round picks SEVEN YEARS in advance.

In the case of Memphis, the pick obligation only lasts until 2016. If Minnesota has not received the pick by the 2016 draft, the right to the 1st round pick is extinguished and they get 2nd rounder instead. So, this is important, because it allows Memphis to trade a 1st round pick away using language that says something like "first available pick after the obligation to Minnesota is extinguished". So, suppose the pick does not go to Minnesota until 2016. That's okay, because Memphis could still send a pick to Cleveland in 2018. That's within the seven year rule.

Now, in the case of the Raptors, our obligation to convey a 1st round pick to OKC could last until 2018, at least in theory , because of the various forms of protection on the pick. So, there is always the possibility of violating the consecutive years rule and the seven years rule. For example, what if the pick fell within the protection zone all the way until 2018? In order to avoid the consecutive years rule, the Raps would only be able to convey a pick 2020. But, by doing so, they end up violating the seven years rule, since they can't trade a 1st round pick that far in advance.
brilliant, and by 2018, with all those first overall picks we'd be champions!







or a team full of bargnani's
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
I didn't hear that the pick being sent to Cleveland was a first rounder for sure. But assuming that's true....

Yes, you're missing something. And it's been explained many times, first by DanH (thank you for that) and then repeated by me as people keep bringing it up. Honestly, this should be stickied at this point.

Our pick is different because it has that pesky reverse protection that lasts for so long.

So, there are two rules that create a problem:
1- the rule that prevents a team from going two years in a row without a 1st round pick.
2-the rule that prevents a team from trading away 1st round picks SEVEN YEARS in advance.

In the case of Memphis, the pick obligation only lasts until 2016. If Minnesota has not received the pick by the 2016 draft, the right to the 1st round pick is extinguished and they get 2nd rounder instead. So, this is important, because it allows Memphis to trade a 1st round pick away using language that says something like "first available pick after the obligation to Minnesota is extinguished". So, suppose the pick does not go to Minnesota until 2016. That's okay, because Memphis could still send a pick to Cleveland in 2018. That's within the seven year rule.

Now, in the case of the Raptors, our obligation to convey a 1st round pick to OKC could last until 2018, at least in theory , because of the various forms of protection on the pick. So, there is always the possibility of violating the consecutive years rule and the seven years rule. For example, what if the pick fell within the protection zone all the way until 2018? In order to avoid the consecutive years rule, the Raps would only be able to convey a pick 2020. But, by doing so, they end up violating the seven years rule, since they can't trade a 1st round pick that far in advance.
Yep. Glad I didn't have to type that this time around. Thanks Bill.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Its all but certain we are giving up our pick this year. It should have taken years... it won`t.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Better this year than next, I guess.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Its all but certain we are giving up our pick this year. It should have taken years... it won`t.
You jinxed it, now we're gonna win the lottery.
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