trade value - Page 2
Old 01-03-2012, 06:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Even with a higher ceiling, it may be wise to move Ed instead of Amir. Ed will want an extension after next year that would make Amir's contract seem reasonable. We could probably get more for Ed and it would be preferable to get a comparable player at a different position.
Comparable player like who? I think people are overestimating players' trade value. Amir would be easier to move because he's a known quantity blue-chipper. Davis will take a couple years before he's a known quantity and until then he's a development project.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Comparable player like who? I think people are overestimating players' trade value. Amir would be easier to move because he's a known quantity blue-chipper. Davis will take a couple years before he's a known quantity and until then he's a development project.
a comparable development project. Who's overestimating? I offer unproven players such as Batum and George as potential trade targets without discussing sweeteners.

Amir is hardly a blue-chipper and he is definitely not known as one.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Amir is hardly a blue-chipper and he is definitely not known as one.
Agreed. I'm trying to theorize a point of view that would hold Amir as more valuable than Ed. I suppose if your theory that Davis will demand an enormous extension when his contract arises then maybe. But potential sells in the NBA and Amir isn't seen as having a whole lot left. Davis has a lot more untapped potential in my eyes, and I think that goes for most.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Why do you think Calderon the perfect PG to play with Valanciunas and not another PG?

There are a lot of PGs in the league who do as much as Calderon and then some.
I call BS on that. Any other pg in the league that can do what JC does is not available. Name an available pg that has the apg, t/o ratio, scoring, loyalty that JC does.

As for defence I want to be fair to JC, the whole team has sucked on defence for years and everyone has had their weaknesses exposed. Now we have a coach that can actually put a system in place that addresses that and lo and behold, the team is competing, other teams are noticing, and AB is being noted for a dramatic increase in defence. Hell, other fans are noticing JC and AB....no coincidence with the new coach.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:44 PM   #25 (permalink)
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the difference between amir and ed is than amir want to stay here. davis will be likely gone after his rookie contract or will be a headcase to trade after one with his new extension if this team don't perform and don't offer him exposure.

so davis has some value now and for the two years to come.
but i don't see us moving DD or Bargs (if not for the right piece, and even so), that put jose, barbo, bayless and davis, and maybe kleiza as trade pieces. no direspect to them.

barbo + davis would be a solid thing for the knicks for example, but they dont have a depth to give us anything of value.

we need to bring here for next season a second unit which can produce off the bench. barbo can do that, but he unbalances the rest of the unit.
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I call BS on that. Any other pg in the league that can do what JC does is not available. Name an available pg that has the apg, t/o ratio, scoring, loyalty that JC does.

As for defence I want to be fair to JC, the whole team has sucked on defence for years and everyone has had their weaknesses exposed. Now we have a coach that can actually put a system in place that addresses that and lo and behold, the team is competing, other teams are noticing, and AB is being noted for a dramatic increase in defence. Hell, other fans are noticing JC and AB....no coincidence with the new coach.
Jose beside Wade and Lebron would be unbelievable. Defensively, he wouldn't be a problem.
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Jose beside Wade and Lebron would be unbelievable. Defensively, he wouldn't be a problem.
Totally agree. Or a team like the Lakers, or Spurs, etc.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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When Jose's healthy, he's one of the most underrated Point-Guards in the League.

Yup hes a defensive liability, but on the offensive end he has eyes like CP3 and Steve Nash. This season hes a top 5 PG in the league so far.

We wont get a better PG for this price.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:34 AM   #29 (permalink)
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so if jose is one of the best as you said :

jose + davis
for
curry + biedrins + 2nd rd NJN

curry/bayless/carter
DD/barbo/forbes
Buttler/JJ/kleiza
Bargs/amir
Biedrins/magloire/"JV"

the value of jose seems fair : a center plus a 2nd pick. and biedrins seems to wake up this year.

and jose+ellis is more suitable than curry+ellis.
we will have to draft the best available player with our first, but we will need a SF, and maybe a star caliber one.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:41 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Yeah for the people who think Jose is a great PG, if traded what players do you think we'd be able to get for him? What realistic trades do you think could happen for Ocho?
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:32 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Jeff, Jose is to old to get full value in a trade.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:12 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Jeff, Jose is to old to get full value in a trade.
Well, that plus his stock has plumetted the last 3yrs. If he really was seen as a near top 10 PG in the NBA he wouldn't be viewed to be too old to get something decent in return in a deal. It's not as if he's pushing 40.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:14 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I disagree, the rest of the world seems to acknowledge that he was hampered by injury, just not us.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:19 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I call BS on that. Any other pg in the league that can do what JC does is not available. Name an available pg that has the apg, t/o ratio, scoring, loyalty that JC does.

As for defence I want to be fair to JC, the whole team has sucked on defence for years and everyone has had their weaknesses exposed. Now we have a coach that can actually put a system in place that addresses that and lo and behold, the team is competing, other teams are noticing, and AB is being noted for a dramatic increase in defence. Hell, other fans are noticing JC and AB....no coincidence with the new coach.
I said that there are PGs who can do just as much and more as Calderon. I didn't say they were available.

Calderon is playing well this year. I don't deny that. However, he's not an upper-echelon PG, as he is unable to take over games like a Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Stephen Curry, Chris Paul, and many others can. That's what separates the top-tier from guys in the 2nd and 3rd tier, where Calderon is.

Calderon is a very good complementary piece to have on a team, but he's not a player you build around.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:20 PM   #35 (permalink)
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so if jose is one of the best as you said :

jose + davis
for
curry + biedrins + 2nd rd NJN

curry/bayless/carter
DD/barbo/forbes
Buttler/JJ/kleiza
Bargs/amir
Biedrins/magloire/"JV"

the value of jose seems fair : a center plus a 2nd pick. and biedrins seems to wake up this year.

and jose+ellis is more suitable than curry+ellis.
we will have to draft the best available player with our first, but we will need a SF, and maybe a star caliber one.
Golden State would never make that trade. Plus, they have Lee at PF, making Davis redundant.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Calderon is a very good complementary piece to have on a team, but he's not a player you build around.
Ya but dude, who is building around him?? He's a complimentary player here too. But when you have a good one, you dont let it go.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Ya but dude, who is building around him?? He's a complimentary player here too. But when you have a good one, you dont let it go.
But this doesn't mean that the team shouldn't look to upgrade the position.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Ya but dude, who is building around him?? He's a complimentary player here too. But when you have a good one, you dont let it go.
yes you do if his contract prevents you from getting better players.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:19 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I disagree, the rest of the world seems to acknowledge that he was hampered by injury, just not us.
and you don't think that has dropped his stock considerably?
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:23 PM   #40 (permalink)
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i think in the trade value, we miss an ingredient : the market by market value.

jose has value for :
- Lakers :they need a real pg
- GSW : they need someone who can really be their pg first
- PHX : they need to think about post-nash era.
- NYK : they really need a pg who can distribute the ball between stoud and anthony.

barbosa :
- lakers : they will improve with a vet playmaker in their second unit.
- NYK : barbo knows d'antoni system, and as his backuo sg behind fields, he would give them scoring abilities.
- wash : they lack good scorer in their second unit.
- atlanta : they need to bring a scorer in their second unit like Boston, PHX,etc...

kleiza, when healthy would have value for team like spurs who don't have depth at SF.


i really think BC has some opportunity in the near futur to make change and get some solid value for our trade-value-players.

i think before the deadline, they will some move, maybe little ones, but some. if he doesn't want to amnesty jose to get more cap sapce, he has to bring big player here with trade, instead of FA whom will be difficult to bring here, even overpaid.
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