Toronto Raptors will struggle starting Calderon at point guard and Bargnani at post

Go Back   Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards > NBA Discussion > Toronto Raptors

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2009, 10:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
..

Member
 
bodmonshotta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 173
Representing:
Default Toronto Raptors will struggle starting Calderon at point guard and Bargnani at post

Quote:
"It’s time to be honest: the plan has flaws.

Over the summer and throughout training camp, the Toronto Raptors publicly stated that they had to improve their defense to become relevant in the Eastern Conference. The entire organization - the players, coaches, and front office - was focused on getting-stops in 2010.

A month into the season, it seems this was all talk. Nothing more. So far, the Raptors have played little or no defense, allowing opponents to score an embarrassing 108 points per game, which is the second highest in the NBA.

The problem is simple: the organization thinks finesse starters Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon can help them become a defensive squad."
source - Toronto Raptors will struggle starting Calderon at point guard and Bargnani at post

sorry if this is a repost

Last edited by 'trane; 12-04-2009 at 01:08 PM.
bodmonshotta is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009, 11:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,234
Representing:
Default

all teams say during the summer that they want to play better defense ... it's the politically correct thing to say.

And I agree - with the qualifier that we can't start jose, Bargnani AND Bosh together. For some reason, Bosh gets a pass everytime this is discussed, but he should be just as able to cover for Calderon as Bargnani is. With all the penetration, a guy like josh smith would average 6 blocks on our team.

Bosh also talked a lot about defensive improvement (personal), in fact the whole bulking-up thing was in theory needed to make a stand on D ... And 20 games in he's averaging fewer blocks per game than bargnani. If Bargnani is the worst help defender, what does that make Bosh ...
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 12:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
x_kaptain_x
is pounding the rock! (Edit)

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Representing:
Default

the worst worst help defender? :O
  Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:05 AM   #4 (permalink)
'twas a dream

teenage dirtbag
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: markham ontario canada
Posts: 526
Representing:
Default

bargs can't play the three, i think he has to come off the bench. i would however switch derozan with wright on the starting line up. Yes wright has been playing like a dumbass, but his defense is not terrible and when given a clear role i think wright can start and benefit the team. I think its time for a change in the starting line up and i think Colangelo will not mind too much if Calderon and Bargs come off the bench now. I think we have passed the stage where Colangeo has to prove he is right. At least i hope so
tommysdu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
the go-to-guy

avatar by F1nir_
 
Mr4thQuarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,770
Representing:
Default

confidence is big issue atm

benching them would be one of the worst choices imo.
already happened in the past, been there, let's not go there again

the execution has to improve, imo it can be done with this line up

maybe a change at the 2 but not 1 and 5, or 3 or 4 for that matter. but personally i like DD to start
Mr4thQuarter is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
hopelessly waiting for raptors offseason moves

Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 145
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr4thQuarter View Post
confidence is big issue atm

benching them would be one of the worst choices imo.
already happened in the past, been there, let's not go there again

the execution has to improve, imo it can be done with this line up

maybe a change at the 2 but not 1 and 5, or 3 or 4 for that matter. but personally i like DD to start
go like this
BOSH
AMIR
WRIGHT
BELLINI
CALDERON
liquidswordz is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
the go-to-guy

avatar by F1nir_
 
Mr4thQuarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,770
Representing:
Default

that team will still get burned and go through drouts
Mr4thQuarter is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 02:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,420
Representing:
Default

because were so much better with amir, why don't u check the game stats, ya he gets more rebounds, but rebounds aren't the problem between winning and losing with the raps this season

when amir plays his +/- is just as bad as Bargnani if not worse

the real problem is turk and and calderon, there just not athletic enough to keep their man in front of them, we can only have one of them start and one go the bench, Calderon is the easy choice because jack is just better, and turk can run the offense with jack out their
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 11:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
Put Comment Here- Maybe I will

Senior Member
 
F1nir_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 512
Representing:
Default

We should start Jack (as we know Josey will play better coming form bench) and trade some of our crappy players for a good starting center and bring Bargh of the bench
F1nir_ is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 12:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
stank

member
 
Someguy again's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,380
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr4thQuarter View Post
confidence is big issue atm

benching them would be one of the worst choices imo.
already happened in the past, been there, let's not go there again

the execution has to improve, imo it can be done with this line up

maybe a change at the 2 but not 1 and 5, or 3 or 4 for that matter. but personally i like DD to start
Or benching them might send a message?
Someguy again is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,485
Representing:
Default

maybe Bosh and jose for martin nocioni and thompson... lets get rid of jose and his porous defence that makes our bigs look terrible...
________
Dc medical marijuana dispensary

Last edited by carp; 03-27-2011 at 03:29 AM.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
one crazy dude

Junior Member
 
Outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 29
Representing:
Default

I'm gonna get laughed at but anyone consider Nesterovic starting at center. He is a classic experience centre who can play position and actually block out. Also he won't stand at the three point line all the time on offence. Not a long term solution but Banana needs to sit for a while.
Outbound is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
kia4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 405
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidswordz View Post
go like this
BOSH
AMIR
WRIGHT
BELLINI
CALDERON
I don't understand this fascination ppl have with Belleneli. I mean the guy takes crazy shots when our offence isn't even in a position to get rebounds. His defense is terrible, and he is an overrated passer. I would much rather we have a player like Derozan or Wright who can play somewhat of a defensive role in that position. Even weems is better than Belleneli. Other than that I agree with you, maybe Jarret at the start so we can come out with more of a defensive personality. Calderon has shown he is solid off the bench.
kia4ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 01:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
DVS
in la la land

I'm stuck being a Rap Fan
 
DVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Its jeffb's world we just post in it
Posts: 6,011
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kia4ever View Post
I don't understand this fascination ppl have with Belleneli. I mean the guy takes crazy shots when our offence isn't even in a position to get rebounds. His defense is terrible, and he is an overrated passer. I would much rather we have a player like Derozan or Wright who can play somewhat of a defensive role in that position. Even weems is better than Belleneli. Other than that I agree with you, maybe Jarret at the start so we can come out with more of a defensive personality. Calderon has shown he is solid off the bench.
The hear you but I feel that all Raptors swingmen have flaws. As for positives with Belli he is a decent sized 2guard, he is IMHO the most successful penetrator on the team. His size helps him guard and right now I really think he is showing the most potential out of any other player at the swing position.

Granted it is like picking from a similar batch. However I'd roll with Belli on the 2guard spot over any other raptor.
DVS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 02:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
..

Member
 
bodmonshotta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 173
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
I'm gonna get laughed at but anyone consider Nesterovic starting at center. He is a classic experience centre who can play position and actually block out. Also he won't stand at the three point line all the time on offence. Not a long term solution but Banana needs to sit for a while.
i dont mind that at all. nesterovic has a high iq when playing. something that i think Bargnani still needs to develop.. more on the defensive end if anything
bodmonshotta is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 03:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
still forecasting a 47 win season!

RF Affiliate
 
brothersteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton/Toronto
Posts: 223
Representing:
Default

If Triano wanted Bargs in the post, that's where he'd be. Bargs has always been described as someone who does what the coach tells him to do.

Triano continues to put him at the 3-pt line to create space for Bosh and to run back on defense when a shot goes up. This guarantees Bargs doesn't get Offensive boards. And on fast breaks Bargs is being asked to cover guards in the open floor - no center can do that! It's STUPID.

Triano does not know how to use the talent he has - it's not on the players!
brothersteve is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 03:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 895
Representing:
Default

been saying this repeatedly for the past 2 seasons

glad others are starting to agree w/ me
jrob23 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 03:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
still forecasting a 47 win season!

RF Affiliate
 
brothersteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton/Toronto
Posts: 223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kia4ever View Post
I don't understand this fascination ppl have with Belleneli. I mean the guy takes crazy shots when our offence isn't even in a position to get rebounds. His defense is terrible, and he is an overrated passer. I would much rather we have a player like Derozan or Wright who can play somewhat of a defensive role in that position. Even weems is better than Belleneli. Other than that I agree with you, maybe Jarret at the start so we can come out with more of a defensive personality. Calderon has shown he is solid off the bench.
Belinelli hits most of those crazy shots. And he's not afraid to shoot - remember Kapono.

Quote:
The Raptors shooting star off the bench, Marco Belinelli, averaged : 8.2 points; 1 rebound; 1.6 assists; o.7 steals, in his first 10 games. Shooting 49.2 percent from the field and 50 percent from three.

In his last 10 games, he averaged: 9.7 points; 1.8 rebounds; 1.6 assists; 0.6 steals. Shooting 39.5 percent from the field and 38.5 percent from three.

This is exactly how Belinelli’s play was advertised. When Belinelli’s is hot, he is really hot. When he goes cold, he still shoots!
Raptors Player Updates After 20 Games

Weems, when he gets to play minutes, still takes bad shots and misses them. Still plays like a 2nd round rookie.

Jack has not played better defense than Calderon - at least not yet.

Last edited by brothersteve; 12-04-2009 at 03:58 PM.
brothersteve is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009, 03:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 895
Representing:
Default

Man we should go after Tyrus Thomas
jrob23 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which one should start as point guard : Banks or Calderon hirmak Toronto Raptors 40 12-22-2009 04:14 PM
Toronto Raptors will struggle starting Calderon at point guard and Bargnani at post Acie Toronto Raptors 7 11-28-2009 11:15 AM
Everyone thinks the starting lineup will struggle on D, but... jeffb Toronto Raptors 49 09-07-2009 10:49 AM
Calderon & Jack - The NBA’s Best Point Guard Combo? Dr. J. Naismith Toronto Raptors 35 07-25-2009 04:04 PM
Calderon Far from Ideal NBA Point Guard Dr. J. Naismith Toronto Raptors 5 10-20-2008 08:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24