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-   -   too many dicks on the dance floor (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/too-many-dicks-dance-floor-23973.html)

'trane 11-04-2012 09:36 PM

too many dicks on the dance floor
 

the raps have too many mediocre guys on this team to get a proper rotation going. ross isn't getting any minutes, even with kleiza away, and we've seen ample criticism of casey for the mess that the substitutions have been so far. the preseason is over and it's time to see who's going to play. there's just too many dicks on the dance floor.

i think most of us can agree that we're not moving any of lowry, derozan, valanciunas, ross and probably jose calderon (unless a sweet deal comes along). but something has to be done with the rest of this gaggle of role players. i mean, how many do we really need? a lack of starters is a poor reason to double up on role players. can we move any of these guys?

fields, kleiza, anderson, mcguire, amir, ed, bargs, gray, lucas, acy - i can't see us needing more than 5 of these guys, especially if we can get something back for losing the other 5.

who stays and who goes?

Thug 11-04-2012 09:39 PM

Stays- lowry, derozan, valanciunas, ross, anderson, amir, bargs, lucas, mcguire

Goes (Expendable)- jose, fields, ed, gray, etc

Admiral 11-04-2012 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug (Post 697778)
Stays- lowry, derozan, valanciunas, ross, anderson, amir, bargs, lucas, mcguire

Goes (Expendable)- jose, fields, ed, gray, etc

i'd much rather lucas leave and jose stay

jeffb 11-04-2012 09:44 PM

Keep: Lowry, Derozan, Davis, Johnson, Calderon, Anderson, Lucas, Valanciunas, Ross, McGuire

Get rid of: Bargnani, Gray, Fields, Kleiza

Don't care: Acy


Go get a legit SF damnit! Or a legit SG and start DD at SF

Don Vito 11-04-2012 10:16 PM

We need to get rid of Bargnani and Fields, set the PF rotation to Davis/Amir & bring in a SF... or start Anderson or Kleiza.

fancylad 11-04-2012 10:47 PM

there pretty interchangeable so i don't know. I like that when Jose comes on for Lowry, we don't seem to miss a beat. Man if he can just re-sign for something more reasonable it would be invaluable. Bargnani is still a keeper in my eyes.

I like Amir, but he makes too much. I like Ed, but i just don't see that much there other than the odd good game. Anderson is a great addition given what he's costing the payroll.

Obviously the team is in need of one very good player. don't know how you bring someone in, but it needs to be done.

just4_raps 11-04-2012 10:57 PM

...Fields is so garbage. LOL. what's even more sad than the pick up of Fields by BC is how much the media and BC are defending this dudes FUNDAMENTAL LACK OF SKILLS!

LMAO

Dario 11-04-2012 11:05 PM

I like DD at SG, he blows by smaller SGs, which is most. We need a bulky SF that can post and is a solid defender, Gay would be perfect if ever possible, we'd be set

pzabby 11-05-2012 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario (Post 697821)
I like DD at SG, he blows by smaller SGs, which is most. We need a bulky SF that can post and is a solid defender, Gay would be perfect if ever possible, we'd be set

DD's actually been blowing by the bigger sg or sf's (when they switched). he's been posting up against the smaller ones, and killed it. really like what I see from him, and as I said from the beginning, this post play works exactly into his strength and will make him jump this year. you can go find the quote if you like, I said it!

:cookie:

The MVP of West Hollywood 11-05-2012 01:07 AM

This roster has 1 too many Joses. Trade Calderon and it looks like

Lowry/Lucas
Derozan/Ross
Fields/Anderson/Kleiza/McGuire
Bargnani/Davis
Valanciunas/Amir/Gray

SF rotation still ends up being a band of dicks for Casey to juggle, but wtf can you do.

finstock 11-05-2012 01:48 AM

We have too many one dimensional, situational guys. For example, at SF, Kleiza can give us some offence, McGuirre defence and Anderson somewhere in between (and Fields, glue?). On any given night one of these guys will be more important than the others, rendering the rotation inconsistent. We need somebody to assert dominance over the SF position. Somebody who demands 35 minutes a night, every night. This somebody will need to acquired via trade.

jeffb 11-05-2012 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MVP of West Hollywood (Post 697868)
This roster has 1 too many Joses. Trade Calderon and it looks like

Lowry/Lucas
Derozan/Ross
Fields/Anderson/Kleiza/McGuire
Bargnani/Davis
Valanciunas/Amir/Gray

SF rotation still ends up being a band of dicks for Casey to juggle, but wtf can you do.



Who you getting for Jose if you trade him?

LX 11-05-2012 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finstock (Post 697871)
We have too many one dimensional, situational guys. For example, at SF, Kleiza can give us some offence, McGuirre defence and Anderson somewhere in between (and Fields, glue?). On any given night one of these guys will be more important than the others, rendering the rotation inconsistent. We need somebody to assert dominance over the SF position. Somebody who demands 35 minutes a night, every night. This somebody will need to acquired via trade.

Yep. And that will likely mean trading a player that is not one of those one-dimensional guys.

I don't think there should be too much of a rush. They should get a good idea of who can work well within a team offense and team defense that includes a Lowry and a Valanciunas in it. Those two guys are not getting traded. So which assets garner some interest while not complimenting the biggest assets here? That will take a bit of time, and they might not be able to do any better than getting draft picks. So there might have to be a lateral trade just to clear out some of the replication in the meantime. My biggest worry is that team cohesion starts to break down along with the rotation.

BC's has some work to do, and at the same time he can't be too hasty. Not a great situation, but he put himself in that box, and he better not put too much on the coach.

Metallikid 11-05-2012 08:26 AM

Guys, look at the team. Look at what teams need around the league. There's a reason Jose and Bargnani have never been linked to any trade rumours. (minus Jordan) It's because they're either too inconsistent or too mediocre to be desirable. I'm sure plenty of GMs have called about Bargnani and I'm sure they've offered shit assets like low draft picks or multiple even less talented players. We're never going to trade up Jose and Bargnani; the high level talent those salaries come to simply isn't available unless there's high level talent is on both sides. Also, have you guys seen small forwards? It's by and far the least deep position in the league and high level SFs are getting contracts like DeRozan's or better. Also, if we lose Bargnani, our front line immediately turns to offensive crap. The problem with the Raptors for as long as I've been a fan is that what talent we have is spread so evenly that trading any of our decent players would always leave us with a dearth somewhere. Jose is our only real asset in that respect and point guards are plentiful nowadays; the bench guards are cheaper and play almost as well or the starter is good enough. And in the span of two short years you can see middling teams dying out; everyone's either way in the rebuild hole, a playoff lock, or already built back up far enough to not consider trading higher talent players laterally.

LX 11-05-2012 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallikid (Post 697898)
Guys, look at the team. Look at what teams need around the league. There's a reason Jose and Bargnani have never been linked to any trade rumours. (minus Jordan) It's because they're either too inconsistent or too mediocre to be desirable. I'm sure plenty of GMs have called about Bargnani and I'm sure they've offered shit assets like low draft picks or multiple even less talented players. We're never going to trade up Jose and Bargnani; the high level talent those salaries come to simply isn't available unless there's high level talent is on both sides. Also, have you guys seen small forwards? It's by and far the least deep position in the league and high level SFs are getting contracts like DeRozan's or better. Also, if we lose Bargnani, our front line immediately turns to offensive crap. The problem with the Raptors for as long as I've been a fan is that what talent we have is spread so evenly that trading any of our decent players would always leave us with a dearth somewhere. Jose is our only real asset in that respect and point guards are plentiful nowadays; the bench guards are cheaper and play almost as well or the starter is good enough. And in the span of two short years you can see middling teams dying out; everyone's either way in the rebuild hole, a playoff lock, or already built back up far enough to not consider trading higher talent players laterally.

You assert that Bargnani has no value among GMs, and yet is invaluable here. I don't think either case is true. There are likely GMs that feel he could be a good fit and help with their team's offense. And if the Raptors overvalue his importance to the offense then they will be lost.

I agree that the problem is not solved easily at all. Especially in the short term. But again, it's the box BC has put himself in. He needs to find a GM willing to open that box a little bit.

creative1mm 11-05-2012 10:50 AM

Quote:

We need to get rid of Bargnani and Fields, set the PF rotation to Davis/Amir & bring in a SF... or start Anderson or Kleiza.
funny, was watching the game last night and my bro was saying the same thing.. I kind of like the idea, but having Jonas and Ed as our front court kind of makes me nervous, I have confidence in Jonas, I think he will be a good player, but he is too young rite now, and that would be such in inexperience font court

but then again this does not look to bad:

Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Amir or Davis
Jonas

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 11-05-2012 11:17 AM

If Bargs, Jose and Ross can acquire that elusive SF than it must be done.

LKZ - he may be an amnesty candidate and/or have some use in a trade.

carp 11-05-2012 11:32 AM

Ed Davis and Landry Fields for Rudy Gay... how can they refuse that?

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 11-05-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 697939)
Ed Davis and Landry Fields for Rudy Gay... how can they refuse that?

they're getting too much in that deal. acy and lkz for gay.

fancylad 11-06-2012 08:26 AM

what the heck is wrong with Kleiza? Is he hurt?


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