TL on BC and the current talent level

JoeyJoJo Shabbadu · 05-25-2013, 11:09 AM

Leiweke says Raptors have work to do to become contenders

Quote:

Speaking Tuesday on TSN Drive with Dave Naylor, Leiweke pulled no punches in saying he thought the team was not as close to being a contending team as Colangelo and others within MLSE who provided opposition to the decision thought they were.

"I guess I don't think that we're 'right there,'" Leiweke said. "I don't think we're a piece away. I think we have work to do.

"There was no consensus," he said regarding the decision to begin a search for a new GM. "There were a lot of people with a lot of opinions and a lot of different opinions. Clearly, I had to understand that I was going to make a decision that was not going to please all."

This really sounds like we are going to rip it all apart.

Quote:

Not naming any one player directly, he made a point of mentioning he thought Colangelo's judgment may have been hindered due to his former ties to his no. 1 overall draft pick in 2006, Andrea Bargnani.

"We need someone who is extremely rational when it comes to the roster and reaching conclusions as to who is going to work and who is not going to work," Leiweke said. "Sometimes you have to find a new set of eyes and a new opinion in order to judge a roster. Not be personal about a player because you chose him or you used the first pick in the first round to pick a player. Sometimes it's easier for a guy coming in that doesn't have that loyalty and doesn't have that burden of being the guy that made that decision. You reach a better conclusion at times about who needs to stay and who needs to go."

He said moving forward the goal is to create a team that is a perennial contender, not one that is simply looking to sneak into a playoff spot.

So many people here have said this... but looks like the biggest reason BC is gone is his Bargnani blinders. I have to think this means Bargnani is gone gone gone ASAP which can't be bad for him and this team.

Kirby · 05-25-2013, 11:13 AM

Take it easy, BC.

KoolAid · 05-25-2013, 11:15 AM

Blow it up man.

jeffb · 05-25-2013, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid

Blow it up man.

Fuck that

js12 · 05-25-2013, 11:20 AM

I actually don't like his quote on Bargnani. We all want him gone, but we can't trade him just for the purpose of trading him.

carp · 05-25-2013, 11:20 AM

BC had blinders to all of his draft picks.... and he just falls in love with his guys so he's always trying to trade low for low, never looking to sell high. There are some prime opportunities to cash in some mediocre assets right now, TL has a prime opportunity to cash in on unwarranted hype bestowed on role players.

carp · 05-25-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by js12

I actually don't like his quote on Bargnani. We all want him gone, but we can't trade him just for the purpose of trading him.

Toronto fans love that type of deal.... only trade the guys we don't want because everybody else must want them! There are major flaws with this team, hoping to see some major correcting. Less jumpshooting.... for all players, even the ones that have green lights.

niggles · 05-25-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid

Blow it up man.

That's just dumb. There's no reason in that. We can trade some of our assets for other assets that will improve the team. Maybe our asset that's wrong for us, is the right fit for another team and vice versa. As long as the incoming player/players enhance the pieces we want to keep, we can end up further ahead.

niggles · 05-25-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by js12

I actually don't like his quote on Bargnani. We all want him gone, but we can't trade him just for the purpose of trading him.

There is lot to be said for addition by subtraction. You don't know the negative effect Bargnani may have on the other players by being here. And on the attitude of the other players to management, because of two sets of rules for some players.

moremilk · 05-25-2013, 11:39 AM

Um, I think he's actually referring to demar though, maybe gay. Bargain is already on the trading block, I don't think anybody wants him here still. Either way, I'm glad TL seems to be willing to go the rebuilding route, we do have a golden opportunity here with a potential stud in JV that is locked for 4 years, time enough to bring a few more good rookies .

niggles · 05-25-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk

Um, I think he's actually referring to demar though, maybe gay. Bargain is already on the trading block, I don't think anybody wants him here still. Either way, I'm glad TL seems to be willing to go the rebuilding route, we do have a golden opportunity here with a potential stud in JV that is locked for 4 years, time enough to bring a few more good rookies .

I think it's more that TL thinks he can accelerate the current rebuild, not tear it down and start over.

Bill Haverchuck · 05-25-2013, 11:52 AM

Ugh. I really don't want to blow it up. No, I don't think we're one piece away from competing for the conference finals or shit like that. I think we are probably a .500 team with the current roster and can make the playoffs if we used the MLE wisely and moved Bargnani for a contributing piece (not even necessarily a good one, just a useful contributor).

I was hoping we could make the playoffs the next two years, even if by just a slim margin, and get JV some good experiences. Then evaluate whether or not to keep Demar/Rudy/Lowry at the end of those 2 years.

It feels like we're constantly retooling and missing the playoffs. Lets keep a fucking core for once and see what the ceiling is.

js12 · 05-25-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck

Ugh. I really don't want to blow it up. No, I don't think we're one piece away from competing for the conference finals or shit like that. I think we are probably a .500 team with the current roster and can make the playoffs if we used the MLE wisely and moved Bargnani for a contributing piece (not even necessarily a good one, just a useful contributor).

I was hoping we could make the playoffs the next two years, even if by just a slim margin, and get JV some good experiences. Then evaluate whether or not to keep Demar/Rudy/Lowry at the end of those 2 years.

It feels like we're constantly retooling and missing the playoffs. Lets keep a fucking core for once and see what the ceiling is.

Yes, exactly. I am still a Colangelo supporter, and felt that they should have given him one more year. This team needs some stability. We just added a new coach two years ago, we just added our starting point guard a year ago, and we just added a new top option a few months ago. We should honestly evaluate what we have right now, instead of blowing it up.

As for Bargnani, I still think he has more value on the team versus what we get in a trade. His value is at an all-time low, so why should we just trade him? I would honestly get someone in the organization to have a one-to-one discussion with him. The relationship with the organization has been strained with the fans and management ripping on him- and a lot of the criticism is deserved. The Raptors organization needs to tell him that his effort is unacceptable, as we have already seen how he plays when he is trying.

If we can get Bargnani to play at least on a respectable level, he is the missing piece that this team needs for a playoff run. Then we can decide whether to trade him or not.

But I guarantee that if we trade him for what he is worth right now, the Raptors will regret it for some time.

woodchuck · 05-25-2013, 12:17 PM

I love hearing this. I hope he follows through.

0nekhmer · 05-25-2013, 12:26 PM

I like his mindset.. we ain't the leafs!!

Stonezz · 05-25-2013, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0nekhmer

I like his mindset.. we ain't the leafs!!

yeah the Raptors are worse

jeffb · 05-25-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonezz

yeah the Raptors are worse

Haaahhhh. We've never gone 9yrs without a playoff appearance.

niggles · 05-25-2013, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by js12

Yes, exactly. I am still a Colangelo supporter, and felt that they should have given him one more year. This team needs some stability. We just added a new coach two years ago, we just added our starting point guard a year ago, and we just added a new top option a few months ago. We should honestly evaluate what we have right now, instead of blowing it up.

As for Bargnani, I still think he has more value on the team versus what we get in a trade. His value is at an all-time low, so why should we just trade him? I would honestly get someone in the organization to have a one-to-one discussion with him. The relationship with the organization has been strained with the fans and management ripping on him- and a lot of the criticism is deserved. The Raptors organization needs to tell him that his effort is unacceptable, as we have already seen how he plays when he is trying.

If we can get Bargnani to play at least on a respectable level, he is the missing piece that this team needs for a playoff run. Then we can decide whether to trade him or not.

But I guarantee that if we trade him for what he is worth right now, the Raptors will regret it for some time.

Been there , done that, on both counts-total fail. I'm sorry that Colangelo got to even stay with the organization- the Raptors will regret THAT for some time. No need to perpetuate the losing culture that has a firm grip on this franchise. If you really feel that talking to the wall has any benefits, that's up to you.

Personally, I'm tired of seeing re-runs of a bad soap-opera.

moremilk · 05-25-2013, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niggles

I think it's more that TL thinks he can accelerate the current rebuild, not tear it down and start over.

And how exactly are you going to do that when you only have the MLE to work with? This team IS built right now and it's locked in place for the next 2 years unless we break it. We only have four reasonable trade assets, Ross, Amir, Lowry and demar, and 3 of those have no real backup. So unless you find a sucker to give you a better player at the same position, you can't really hope to improve.

The obvious solution which I think TL alludes to, is to break the core and start over.

moremilk · 05-25-2013, 12:50 PM

As for bargain, imo he will be harder to trade now, since the other teams probably think we have to get rid of him at any cost.

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05-25-2013, 11:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
Kirby losing faith in Rap's fan base Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 6,728 Representing:	Take it easy, BC.

05-25-2013, 11:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
KoolAid If I ruled the world... Sippin' On Myself Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Yes Posts: 3,600 Representing:	Blow it up man.

05-25-2013, 11:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
js12 #NorthernUprising Next year... Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: T.O. Posts: 5,471 Representing:	I actually don't like his quote on Bargnani. We all want him gone, but we can't trade him just for the purpose of trading him.

05-25-2013, 11:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
carp . Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 11,485 Representing:	BC had blinders to all of his draft picks.... and he just falls in love with his guys so he's always trying to trade low for low, never looking to sell high. There are some prime opportunities to cash in some mediocre assets right now, TL has a prime opportunity to cash in on unwarranted hype bestowed on role players.

05-25-2013, 11:39 AM	#10 (permalink)
moremilk whatever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: toronto Posts: 9,236 Representing:	Um, I think he's actually referring to demar though, maybe gay. Bargain is already on the trading block, I don't think anybody wants him here still. Either way, I'm glad TL seems to be willing to go the rebuilding route, we do have a golden opportunity here with a potential stud in JV that is locked for 4 years, time enough to bring a few more good rookies .

05-25-2013, 11:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
Bill Haverchuck the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor The Mara sisters are hot! Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,843 Representing:	Ugh. I really don't want to blow it up. No, I don't think we're one piece away from competing for the conference finals or shit like that. I think we are probably a .500 team with the current roster and can make the playoffs if we used the MLE wisely and moved Bargnani for a contributing piece (not even necessarily a good one, just a useful contributor). I was hoping we could make the playoffs the next two years, even if by just a slim margin, and get JV some good experiences. Then evaluate whether or not to keep Demar/Rudy/Lowry at the end of those 2 years. It feels like we're constantly retooling and missing the playoffs. Lets keep a fucking core for once and see what the ceiling is.

05-25-2013, 12:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
woodchuck is pounding the rock! Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,792 Representing:	I love hearing this. I hope he follows through.

05-25-2013, 12:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
0nekhmer Landing flight 31 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Brampton Ontario Posts: 3,074 Representing:	I like his mindset.. we ain't the leafs!!

05-25-2013, 12:50 PM	#20 (permalink)
moremilk whatever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: toronto Posts: 9,236 Representing:	As for bargain, imo he will be harder to trade now, since the other teams probably think we have to get rid of him at any cost.