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-   -   is TJ really to blame? or is it really Smitch? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/tj-really-blame-really-smitch-1219.html)

INSIDER 03-13-2008 10:53 AM

is TJ really to blame? or is it really Smitch?
 
guys, we've been picking on TJ for the last little while...
and while i've been riding shotgun on the TJ bashing side, i started thinking last night that he may not really be the one to fully blame.
sure, he is playing like he thinks his name is Lebron James, but when it all comes down to it, Sam is not doing anything about it.

Sam seems to be "letting" TJ do this nonsense and doesnt even show any care in the world about it.
Sam's given him the keys to the car and looks to have turned a blind eye towards TJ's selfish play.
he's giving TJ more minutes than Jose... he's giving TJ the PG minutes during the final stretch's of the game, and letting him go wild.

the game was tied with about 5:30 left on the clock and it turned into TJ time.
for about 2 minutes TJ took all our shot attempts... some decent looks, but the majority were out of control..fadeaway..impossible shots.
for anyone with a PVR, watch the game at the 5 minute mark; there was a possession where TJ brought the ball up, dribbled it for 20 seconds, waited till there was 4 seconds left on the clock and hoisted up a 3 point bomb (with a defender in his grill)... obviously it missed.
sam didnt even say a word.
anyone on the team does this; they would get an earful. TJ ford does this, and sam just stares into space.

what im getting at is that TJ isnt even being punished for what he's doing out there.. in fact, he probably has no clue that he's hurting this team... he has no clue that he's hogging the ball, and making terrible choices... he is not being punished for any of his actions.
while TJ is rightfully getting bashed by the fans, Sam is just as accountable.

Dr. J. Naismith 03-13-2008 11:02 AM

Neither is to blame in my opinion ..... I just don't think we are as deep and strong as some here think we are. Sure I don't agree with Sam all the time or how Ford decides to take over games so often, but we're truely not that strong of a team which I don't understand why people don't see this. :(

I'm not a being a fairweather fan, but as a team when you struggle with inconsistent interior and perimeter defense and can't rebound worth a lick, those things add up. Its just funny that people choose to see and blame who they want to blame instead of looking at the bigger picture. :(

fancylad 03-13-2008 11:05 AM

both are at fault.

TJ for getting tunnel vision at times,
Sam for not having the team play as a more cohesive unit.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 03-13-2008 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 17906)
Neither is to blame in my opinion ..... I just don't think we are as deep and strong as some here think we are. Sure I don't agree with Sam all the time or how Ford decides to take over games so often, but we're truely not that strong of a team which I don't understand why people don't see this. :(

I'm not a being a fairweather fan, but as a team when you struggle with inconsistent interior and perimeter defense and can't rebound worth a lick, those things add up. Its just funny that people choose to see and blame who they want to blame instead of looking at the bigger picture. :(

I was going to leave the forum today because of all this anti-tj crap sucking the fun out of following the team, but posts like yours doc make me think twice. I agree completely with you... the team is struggling and has weaknesses that Bosh and our hot shooting at times during the season has masked, but now with Bosh out, Calderon struggling...those weaknesses are more glaring and TJ trying to make up for them has become the popular target, along with Mitchell.

My view on the Raptors is we've taken some good steps again this year, unfortunately regressed in a couple areas but we're still a fun team to watch adn i'm happy to be a fan of the team in this new era of over 500 ball.

I still beleive witha healthy team we can get to the second round in the east and we're a few moves away from being more consistant in that regard, but the future I believe is still bright and I like a lot of the pieces we have.

The last two games have been lost because we allowed the opposing teams to shoot over 50%...no other reason period! THey are better teams and they beat us on their home court because they did what they needed to do, neutralized our strengths and made our point guards be scorers and we did not do what we needed to do...defend and give ourselves a chance. End of story.. learn and move on.

Acie 03-13-2008 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! (Post 17908)
I was going to leave the forum today because of all this anti-tj crap sucking the fun out of following the team, but posts like yours doc make me think twice. I agree completely with you... the team is struggling and has weaknesses that Bosh and our hot shooting at times during the season has masked, but now with Bosh out, Calderon struggling...those weaknesses are more glaring and TJ trying to make up for them has become the popular target, along with Mitchell.

My view on the Raptors is we've taken some good steps again this year, unfortunately regressed in a couple areas but we're still a fun team to watch adn i'm happy to be a fan of the team in this new era of over 500 ball.

I still beleive witha healthy team we can get to the second round in the east and we're a few moves away from being more consistant in that regard, but the future I believe is still bright and I like a lot of the pieces we have.

The last two games have been lost because we allowed the opposing teams to shoot over 50%...no other reason period! THey are better teams and they beat us on their home court because they did what they needed to do, neutralized our strengths and made our point guards be scorers and we did not do what we needed to do...defend and give ourselves a chance. End of story.. learn and move on.


SWAN you're speaking my language brother. Please don't leave or who the hell else besides me will make sense around here? lol

Dr. J. Naismith 03-13-2008 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! (Post 17908)
I was going to leave the forum today because of all this anti-tj crap sucking the fun out of following the team, but posts like yours doc make me think twice.

It would sad to see you go and leave the forum SWAN because of this, but you gotta do what you gotta do man. I completely understand. Its not for everyone. :(

Truth be told though, if its not here then its at every other Raptor message board right now. Its inevitable, but all you can do is just grin and bare it. I just remember not to take things to heart eventhough we're beating a deadhorse with all the Ford and Mitchell criticism. But we are a public message board and people are free to express their feelings as they choose. I just suggest you ignore certain threads or posters if it gets to you too much.

Choice is yours man, but the door's always open here for you SWAN. :)

MangoKidHoops 03-13-2008 11:29 AM

Ride it out, brother.. TJ is just getting his groove back. All the haters will go away in time.

fho 03-13-2008 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 17906)
Neither is to blame in my opinion ..... I just don't think we are as deep and strong as some here think we are. Sure I don't agree with Sam all the time or how Ford decides to take over games so often, but we're truely not that strong of a team which I don't understand why people don't see this. :(

I'm not a being a fairweather fan, but as a team when you struggle with inconsistent interior and perimeter defense and can't rebound worth a lick, those things add up. Its just funny that people choose to see and blame who they want to blame instead of looking at the bigger picture. :(

Overall, the team isn't playing well. Nobody is working hard for the rebounds or rotating fast enough on team defense. Too many jump shots and not enough drives.

But it doesn't help anyone else if they don't see touches because Ford is hogging the ball or taking too many shots. And if the coach doesn't see this and do anything about it then he's also at fault.

I've said it before the team needs Ford, but in a different capacity of what he thinks he should be doing. Coach has done well but he's missing something to inspire the team consistently. We did well with Bosh and Bargnani last year we need to find that touch again.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I do think we have talent and depth, it's up to the coach to develop it, and whip!! everyone into shape and make them tough.

Every player should have to meet an individual quota to get to the foul line at least 5 times, every game.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 03-13-2008 11:34 AM

Oh i know it's everywhere... this place was my last attempt at a fun raptors forum after a couple of failed experiments..it's either here or nowhere :D Thanks for the support guys...maybe we should have a separate hidden forum for people that dont' want to bash all the time and drive our players out of town lol

Benzo 03-13-2008 11:37 AM

SWAN.

Ya just gotta take it.Trust me, I am a huge Mo Peterson fan. Just choose not to respond.

MangoKidHoops 03-13-2008 11:39 AM

And we all know how much we ragged on Benz about his man-crush for MoHerpes.

Benzo 03-13-2008 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation (Post 17928)
And we all know how much we ragged on Benz about his man-crush for MoHerpes.

He would still be the best perimater defender on our team...not that, that is saying a whole lot.

fancylad 03-13-2008 11:42 AM

yeah. i guess after some reflection, some of us fans need to chill.
myself included.


It's easy to point fingers and blame.

the team is slumping right now.
These recent two games, were we even supposed to win any of them? nope.

Thanks for bringing me back to reality SWAN, doc, hoopslyrrad, acie et al.

MangoKidHoops 03-13-2008 11:46 AM

Think about it guys.. We're keeping in games with some of the better teams in the association without our franchise player. This bodes well for our game in Denver. I got a good feeling about it. Don't drop off, friends. We're holding our own.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 03-13-2008 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzo (Post 17925)
SWAN.

Ya just gotta take it.Trust me, I am a huge Mo Peterson fan. Just choose not to respond.

It's not about me being a Ford fan honestly..it's just not a fun place to hang around with fans like many who just make such harsh and ridiculous derrogatory comments and place so much blame on one area and completely ignore other reasons for our issues. It's the fans that have no balance to their posts...making statements against one player but not holding other guilty players accountable...its' just not fun to talk ball with those fans for me.

I'm going to try a different approach for a while and see if it brings me any enjoyment...and let me also say there are some really cool fans here that bring excellent discussion to the board..i'm by no means painting you all with the same brush.

INSIDER 03-13-2008 11:59 AM

whats with the love fest?
when a team slumps, this shit happens.
its the nature of sports. its the nature of fans.
you cant expect the team to play like crap and fans to be happy... blame is what happens... finger pointing happens.
almost every thread over the last week has been about bashing TJ, or questioning sam... is it a coincidence that most fans are thinking along the same lines? nope.
there is something very wrong with this team... and we all know it.
while most will say its cause Bosh is out, that not it at all... this has been brewing for quite some time now, its bigger than CB being out. we all know it.
you guys can all sit quietly and be in denial, but i wont.

Acie 03-13-2008 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzo (Post 17930)
He would still be the best perimater defender on our team...not that, that is saying a whole lot.


On a serious note, he's not getting a lot of burn in NO. WTF?

fancylad 03-13-2008 12:03 PM

i'll wait to see how things play out a bit longer before i take any stands.

That being said, i can understand why fans try to pinpoint problems (you're right insider: it's the nature of following a team), and i can equally understand why other fans are more supportive and choose to ride things out.

I think i'm somewhere in the middle.

raptor123 03-13-2008 12:10 PM

:director:SWAN please take TJ with you.We promise you we will drop our signs :protest: This is the only way this team will bond once again its with TJ gone.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 03-13-2008 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 17960)
i'll wait to see how things play out a bit longer before i take any stands.

That being said, i can understand why fans try to pinpoint problems (you're right insider: it's the nature of following a team), and i can equally understand why other fans are more supportive and choose to ride things out.

I think i'm somewhere in the middle.

In fairness to me, i'm not saying i'm right and others are wrong...its' just the way i follow sports. I dont' have this feeling of accountability towards me by the team just because i spend a little money on their product. I follow because it's fun to period...when it's not fun i wont' follow.


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