Time for a zone?
Old 11-05-2009, 05:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Time for a zone?

Jay is fond of "packing the paint", right? But as the last two games have demonstrated, the Raps still get burned on the perimeter on a regular basis, thus having to "collapse" all the time, leaving three-point shooters wide open. Why don't they just play a 2-3 zone (sometimes mixing a match-up in for a good measure)?
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hell, I'd even be in for a little man to man coverage.

It sounds sounds as though Triano is not wavering at all on his defensive philosophies.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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can't we already suck on rebounds, playing zone will just create a huge hole in the middle that allows the other team to walk in and grab the rebounds. Plus, its not like they communicate that well on defense.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think what triano is trying to do is to get people to learn the philosophy to the point where it's second nature. Once that happen, they might try to add nuances. If that's the case, I like the approach, when you don't excel at something, it's better to keep things simple. Experience and habit can compensate for weaknesses.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
Jay is fond of "packing the paint", right? But as the last two games have demonstrated, the Raps still get burned on the perimeter on a regular basis, thus having to "collapse" all the time, leaving three-point shooters wide open. Why don't they just play a 2-3 zone (sometimes mixing a match-up in for a good measure)?
I was just thinking about that. This team simply doesn't play zone and it should be implemented when needed. There seems to be no flexibility in their defensive philosophy at all. Great thread.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
Jay is fond of "packing the paint", right? But as the last two games have demonstrated, the Raps still get burned on the perimeter on a regular basis, thus having to "collapse" all the time, leaving three-point shooters wide open. Why don't they just play a 2-3 zone (sometimes mixing a match-up in for a good measure)?
Personally I think NBA teams would tear apart a 2-3 zone. All you have to do is attack the zone to the middle and have your snipers in place at certain spots and your cutters and posts up put together accordingly.

2-3 zones work well in college when talent is much more inferior. Personally, I don't mind a zone done in certain situation. Like lawrence Frank killed the Raptors a few years ago switching from zone to man to man against the raptors. Mitchells unprepared group just weren't ready for it
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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We should cut Ivarony if we aren't playing good defence by X-Mas. bring in Bruce Bowen as defensive coach.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think what triano is trying to do is to get people to learn the philosophy to the point where it's second nature. Once that happen, they might try to add nuances. If that's the case, I like the approach, when you don't excel at something, it's better to keep things simple. Experience and habit can compensate for weaknesses.
Yo!! .. i agree with u man, thats what i been sayin .. its gonna b some good D, Hopfully....

just gotta give it some time
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Personally I think NBA teams would tear apart a 2-3 zone. All you have to do is attack the zone to the middle and have your snipers in place at certain spots and your cutters and posts up put together accordingly.

2-3 zones work well in college when talent is much more inferior. Personally, I don't mind a zone done in certain situation. Like lawrence Frank killed the Raptors a few years ago switching from zone to man to man against the raptors. Mitchells unprepared group just weren't ready for it
took the words out of my mouth. Our guards routinely get beat, so the zone would be exploited pretty quickly.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't think guards beating us with dribble penetration would expose zone - in fact, that's what it would prevent. Three-point shooting, on the other hand, and especially from the corner, might - but that's what the Raps routinely allow anyway, so....
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I don't think guards beating us with dribble penetration would expose zone - in fact, that's what it would prevent. Three-point shooting, on the other hand, and especially from the corner, might - but that's what the Raps routinely allow anyway, so....
..... why change anything when you have been taught a traditional NBA systems since training camp. Maybe .. just maybe this system will click. To scrap what you been pounding in their brains from training camp would be a set back espcially having 8 rough games to come.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think what triano is trying to do is to get people to learn the philosophy to the point where it's second nature. Once that happen, they might try to add nuances. If that's the case, I like the approach, when you don't excel at something, it's better to keep things simple. Experience and habit can compensate for weaknesses.
+10
i agree, players are still learning this strategy, by trying to add more before they have their primary defensive strategy down would only make it take longer for them to learn anything and our D would stay horrible for much longer. It makes way more sense to get this D to be instinctual before triano starts adding more.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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..... why change anything when you have been taught a traditional NBA systems since training camp. Maybe .. just maybe this system will click. To scrap what you been pounding in their brains from training camp would be a set back espcially having 8 rough games to come.
OK, OK, I was just musing, really..
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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OK, OK, I was just musing, really..
Its ok I"m just waiting until someonw posts up playbooks on the forum so things can get more interesting
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Its ok I"m just waiting until someonw posts up playbooks on the forum so things can get more interesting
LOL.

Seriously, though, until/unless we see some marked improvements on defence, a lot of discussions here will be centered around what's going on at that end of the floor. They have proven they can score on pretty much anyone, even with 9 new players, 2 new starters and Bosh/Turk/Jose not playing even close to their peak form.

I guess we will just have to be patient....
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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LOL.

Seriously, though, until/unless we see some marked improvements on defence, a lot of discussions here will be centered around what's going on at that end of the floor. They have proven they can score on pretty much anyone, even with 9 new players, 2 new starters and Bosh/Turk/Jose not playing even close to their peak form.

I guess we will just have to be patient....
Having a basically new team on the floor it takes time. The Raps look a little lost on the floor. Soon enough each player will know the capabilities of one aonther and the TEam D will get a little better. Obviously, defense will never be the teams forte but already being 3rd in Offense you just have to be slightly about average at D to get a 4-5 spot. That should be the goal. Having injured members already doesn't really help but maybe Reggie will be an Infusion rather than a distraction when he comes back.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Jay is fond of "packing the paint", right? But as the last two games have demonstrated, the Raps still get burned on the perimeter on a regular basis, thus having to "collapse" all the time, leaving three-point shooters wide open. Why don't they just play a 2-3 zone (sometimes mixing a match-up in for a good measure)?
Excellent idea, was thinking this myself the last few days. I know Triano is leary of confusing guys as to our defensive system and wants to not show any signs of wavering as well. Surely the Raps have enough BBIQ to be able to differentiate their normal defensive system with one that's as simple as a zone. This would allow them to throw some different looks when needed at an opposing offence that's having their way with us from the perimeter.

It would be greatly beneficial to throw in a perimeter concentrated zone several times a game just so opposing teams don't get so comfortable and are forced to adjust throughout the game instead of allowing them to plan for a sure thing style of defense.

Last edited by tvett6; 11-07-2009 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Matt Bonner just showed the Raptors why you don't play zone in the nba.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I think this team is one of the most stupid (bb wise) teams in the nba. Most of our players are just dumb, routiney get confused and bogged down in screens etc
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I think this team is one of the most stupid (bb wise) teams in the nba. Most of our players are just dumb, routiney get confused and bogged down in screens etc
They are not dumb .... just bad coaching
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