Time for Salmons' Minutes to be Cut.
Old 03-17-2014, 01:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I can't take it anymore.

John Salmons is shooting 36% on the year, hasn't shot above 40% since 2011, and is killing the second unit. He has literally had a league-average PER once. In his entire career. Of TWELVE SEASONS. He has become some inexplicable "veteran presence" while never being even an average player. He's also been to the playoffs all of twice and never out of the first round.

I understand that he's ostensibly out there for defense, but guess what? He's basically never been above league average in DRtg, either. He offers so little on the other end of the floor while taking more than five shots a game that I think it's time for Landry Fields to get a little run.

Fields did well in the minutes he recieved when Ross was out, and he works off the ball well. Some nice cutting plays installed in the bench unit would be nice, and he's a plus defender.

Anything would be better than more John Salmons pull-up jumper bricks.

Last edited by cloudnine; 03-17-2014 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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agree, Fields is a better defender and would make less harm to our offense, at least he is not shooting a pull ups with 15 seconds on the shot clock.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have a feeling a lot of this anger towards Salmons stems from the Suns game (which I haven't watched).

I thought the general opinion on Salmons was pretty good, don't know when exactly this changed...
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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In the last 20 games he is shooting 3s below 20%, and 2s below 30%, and he is making ~5-6 shots attempts every game. This wouldn't make any team better. No feelings , just pure stats
NBA Stats

Quote:
February 12 22.0 1.4 4.7 30.4% 0.5 2.0 25.0%
March 7 20.6 1.7 5.4 31.6% 0.1 1.1 12.5%

Last edited by Rompeprop; 03-17-2014 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think it is more frustration talk then actual opinion. It is understandable, however, Salmons brings veteran presence and security as well as ball handling and play making to that second unit that is really valuable and is something we need. Just remember those Pick and Roll plays in the crunch time against Goldenstate, very smooth execution. Fields can never bring something like that.
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I think at this point you could play either Landry or John. See who's got it going more then stick with who does...
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
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As much as i liked Salmons in his first month here, he's been horrible ever since. I think he's slower than Vasquez and i cringe anytime he jacks up a three.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Agree with this. Salmons has not played good for a long time, and he seems tired every time I see him on the floor.

Fields should have a chance now to show what he can do with the second unit. It would be good to see if he can contribute before we go into the playoff.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:29 AM   #9 (permalink)
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What amazes me is that Fields started a game a week or so ago and played well. Since then, nailed to the bench!
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It's called a rotation. Fields played to fill in for an injured starter. As soon as Casey starts messing with the regular rotation there will be all kinds of complaints about how he can't settle on anything and establish a rotation that the players can count on, and i will be among those complaining, rightly.

Salmons is much better when rested though, and he probably should be given some nights off down the stretch. He played a really nice game after the four game break.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LX View Post
It's called a rotation. Fields played to fill in for an injured starter. As soon as Casey starts messing with the regular rotation there will be all kinds of complaints about how he can't settle on anything and establish a rotation that the players can count on, and i will be among those complaining, rightly.

Salmons is much better when rested though, and he probably should be given some nights off down the stretch. He played a really nice game after the four game break.
I definitely want him to establish a rotation the players can depend on. In which he plays the best players. And Fields is an upgrade to Salmons, and should be an established rotation player.

Looking at Salmons's splits, you are right, he's much better with rest.

Days Rest | Individual ORTG | Individual DRTG | +/- per 100 possessions
0 | 78 | 110 | -5
1 | 92 | 108 | +0.4
2| 105 | 108 | +4.5
3+ | 123 | 99 | +13.8

Wow, he's great when he gets rest! Of course, 1 day of rest is typical in the playoffs, and I'd rather not sit through his awful offense and below average defense every game in the playoffs. So, yeah, I want the rotation established by the time the playoffs roll around, so better to sit Salmons now than wait and have to make a panic move in the playoffs when he can't handle the workload.
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Fields is not an upgrade.

Salmons is allowed to have a few bad games. If Derozan and Ross were playing the way they should be playing their would be no reason to complain about their back-up. I hope Casey doesn't make knee-jerk reactions to a line-up that has been working.

Salmons has been invaluable down the stretch of some games being used as a primary ball-handler when teams won't leave Demar or Lowry, showing he can capitalize on that space running the pick and roll. That has been big.

If Salmons starts showing a lack of confidence\, kind of like what Fields has shown his entire time in Toronto, then maybe it's time to switch it up.

Last edited by bjjs; 03-17-2014 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Fields is not an upgrade.

Salmons is allowed to have a few bad games. If Derozan and Ross were playing the way they should be playing their would be no reason to complain about their back-up.
A few?


Fields is not an upgrade but he certainly isn't a downgrade. In fact there are some nights where he actually would a be an upgrade tbh. Yesterday was a perfect example.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I actually liked him a lot before he got injured, since he's come back, he's been reallly off with his shot. He did hit some clutch shots recently but also has bricked a ton of wide open looks. Landry needs to cut into some of his minutes
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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A few?


Fields is not an upgrade but he certainly isn't a downgrade. In fact there are some nights where he actually would a be an upgrade tbh. Yesterday was a perfect example.
He is a downgrade when the other team doesn't need to guard him.

His lack of confidence in his jumper is exactly what teams will exploit in the playoffs.

Is Salmons really the reason we've lost any of our games...no, not even close.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
He is a downgrade when the other team doesn't need to guard him.

His lack of confidence in his jumper is exactly what teams will exploit in the playoffs.

Is Salmons really the reason we've lost any of our games...no, not even close.
+1
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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He is a downgrade when the other team doesn't need to guard him.

His lack of confidence in his jumper is exactly what teams will exploit in the playoffs.

Is Salmons really the reason we've lost any of our games...no, not even close.
Is he the reason, no......Fields wouldn't be either. But a game like yesterday, when our bench struggled we needed a veteran like him to step up and he didn't. So while we didn't lose because of him he certainly didn't help in any way.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Is he the reason, no......Fields wouldn't be either. But a game like yesterday, when our bench struggled we needed a veteran like him to step up and he didn't. So while we didn't lose because of him he certainly didn't help in any way.
You're right, but is that one game a reason to switch up a rotation that has otherwise been winning at a .667 clip.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
He is a downgrade when the other team doesn't need to guard him.

His lack of confidence in his jumper is exactly what teams will exploit in the playoffs.

Is Salmons really the reason we've lost any of our games...no, not even close.
They don't need to guard him at the 3, but Fields is very smart player, he is always moving and getting open close to the net, So defenders can't cheat all that much. IMO Fields is an upgrade, he plays great D rebounds really well (could use that now) and has a good court vision. He should be a player coming in when DD goes to the bench
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Fields takes advantage of bad defense, which we will not see very much of in the playoffs. Salmons has shown the ability to run the offense and hit contested shots which imo will be invaluable in the playoffs where we'll likely see Derozan and Ross struggle for stretches.
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