Time to look at the big picture- Leadership at the top
Old 12-03-2009, 01:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Time to look at the big picture- Leadership at the top

Time to bring back the FIRE PEDDIE chants, and START the FIRE BC one.

Peddie basically ran this franchise into the ground pre BC and was rumored to have 1 last chance to turn it around and that was by hiring BC and having him make the basketball decisions instead. Peddie is a businessman that was making basketball and hockey decisions. BCs lack of success should be the last straw, if the Leafs sucking shit for the last 5+ years wasnt. How can he run 2 bigtime franchises into the ground and still have the same job title?

And BC? All this talk about being Phoenix East made me want to puke. I was originally a supporter of his in his 1st year when he made some nice moves in getting some tough gritty guys, and our team playing like a team. The team that lost to NJ wasnt the most talented, but they got after it and they had a chance most nights. The teamwork was there and we actually looked good on defence at times, especially with Garbo and Rasho in there.

After Garbo got injured it went all downhill, not that there was much potential in going uphill.

BC puts way too much faith into offensive players and still has no fucking clue that defence wins championships. Im not even expecting a championship anytime in my lifetime, I do expect us to have a team by now, in our 15th season as a franchise, that consistantly makes the playoffs and has the potential/threat to make it deep int othe playoffs a la Detroit the past 7 seasons before last year. Its been 15 years and we've only had one 'run'.

BCs obsession with re creating a Phoenix like team has put us in a hole we may not get out of until 2013/14.

Look at the scenarios:

If Bosh signs an offer sheet with another team that he asks us not to match and we cant get a sign and trade, we lose him for nothing which is the worst case.

If we sign and trade him or trade him at the deadline we wont get near value for him especially with his comments after the game tonight and the speculation that will go with that.

Either way, if Bosh leaves, we're still stuck with the softest effortless dumb pieces of shit that are Turk and Bargs.

Theres limitless examples every game as to how out of it Bargs is, and how lazy Turkoglu is.

Bargnani just looks like he doesnt give a shit on defence, whether its not moving his feet, not seeing man AND BALL, not trying to box out, not trying to run to a rebound or loose ball, or the usual just not rotating at all whether hes too stupid or just doesnt want to runand waste energy he can be using on offence.

And Hedo? No hustle. Theres been so many times hes had a chance to get in and grab a board once Bosh comes over to defend a shot, and instead of planting his ass on the weakside and boxing out, he ball watches then fouls the player that sneaks in front of him and blames someone else. Or tonight vs the Hawks when Pachulia outhustled him to that rebound, not only did he watch Pachulia get to it first, but then dive into the front row and save it, while Turk watched that and Willims picked up the ball infront of him.

BCs so obsessed with the 'exciting' euro ball style of play he cant see that it has 0 chance of working/winning games without a great player involved in the backcourt. And even then you have 0 defence and you need more ATHLETIC firepower to get it done(Amare/Marion/johnson/Diaw/Bell etc).

I hate to single them out because there are a lot of good 2 way euro players in the NBA, but there are none on our team. BC needs to find a way to get rid of Jose/Turk/Bargs, even Marco, and bring in a LOT more 2 way players who are athletic and work hard every game.

What makes teams like ATL/BOS/LAL so good is that all of their players are athletic quick players who can help and recover and take pride in doing so.

The only player that you see that can do that on a night in night out basis is Amir so far. Jack has shown at times he can do it but gets blown by a lot, and Wright overhelps too much. Rasho is near Amir level but isnt quick enough at times even though he gives it his best.

BC brought in way too many offensive players without thinking about the other side of the ball AGAIN.

He needs to find a way to fix his AWFUL team building decision, or he needs to go, and go ASAP.

This team needs new high level management to fix this mess.

Losing Bosh is only going to make things 100000x worse. Being stuck with Bargs and Hedo for 4 more yrs is bad, but the ideology from BC and how Peddie runs things is whats really bringing us down.

This is for the masses to use:


Last edited by Ball Don't Lie; 12-03-2009 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If we get Derrick Rose we can get rid of Jose and JJ because Jack not of use since he was only brought in to keep Bosh. If Bosh decide to stay find a way to got Wade here and trade him for Barg+Hedo+POB; if not Chris Paul or Derrick Rose for Jose+Hedo+POB.
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Ariza was cheaper, younger and a better player
but Hedo was signed - $53 mil

I'd like to put my hat into the GM ring
or hire Dennis Lindsey as the new GM
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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BC brought all the best players he could over the break, and the players are not the problem, it is fairly obvious that the coaches do not help the players mesh around, the players meshing will not just happen by itself, it needs direction, jay triano is obviously not better than mitchell, and that's saying a lot.

they are shit coaches, and the talent on our team is undeniable, but the fact that our leadership sucks dick (not BC, triano and the rest of the coaches.) is the reason we are sucking hard.
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:28 AM   #5 (permalink)
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nicely written thriller....couldnt agree more...

and look at what the future holds for us.......do we resign Bosh and still try to build around him?...or do we trade him for a bunch of role players?....we get shafted either way....

and if iam bc.....iam very worried right now....this is like last years team all over again....but with more talent and shit load of money spent in the wrong places....mlse cannot be happy right now...
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:30 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Ariza was cheaper, younger and a better player
Then lets trade with Houston and give them Hedo for Ariza. At the very least he can play better Defense then the whole raptor team combine and get us 3 whenever he wants. Also he's good at stealing ball from people

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Old 12-03-2009, 02:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Then lets trade with Houston and give them Hedo for Ariza. At the very least he can play better Defense then the whole raptor team combine and get us 3 whenever he wants. Also he's good at stealing ball from people

YouTube - Trevor Ariza Highlights
and while were at it...lets trade Bosh for howard....
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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and while were at it...lets trade Bosh for howard....
ya for sure, i'd like to get Kobe for pops too.
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:03 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Out of the 3 trade he did between JO,Shawn,Hedo Shawn was the best. Bad move on BC on bringing in Hedo and not trying to get Shawn back. Actually what BC should of done is trade JO for Wade instead of Shawn; we could have had Wade and Bosh team already T_T.
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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BC brought all the best players he could over the break, and the players are not the problem, it is fairly obvious that the coaches do not help the players mesh around, the players meshing will not just happen by itself, it needs direction, jay triano is obviously not better than mitchell, and that's saying a lot.

they are shit coaches, and the talent on our team is undeniable, but the fact that our leadership sucks dick (not BC, triano and the rest of the coaches.) is the reason we are sucking hard.
gave Hedo too much money when there were other options and he gave Tirano the HC job
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
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gave Hedo too much money when there were other options and he gave Tirano the HC job
still man, at the time when we aqcuired hedo there was nobody else that would even consider us, the only reason a player of hedo's character was acquirable is becuz of all the turks living in toronto lol (lame i know :P)

in any case, there were just no other options.

but i agree with Jay Triano, probably the worst move he could make he did - acquiring jay triano, sam mitchell's wingman...

sam mitchell was shit, and jay was even worse than him, why acquire him? he changed NOTHING with the team after mitchell left, the team was left in ruins and we are now suffering because of that...

the talent in the team is immense, and depth too, but meshing doesn't happen overnight, and coaching is the only way out, we need someone good.

bring jeff van gundy.
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Windex View Post
Ariza was cheaper, younger and a better player
but Hedo was signed - $53 mil

I'd like to put my hat into the GM ring
or hire Dennis Lindsey as the new GM
for what are team needs thats a great signing, 5 years 35 million, but the fact was at the time that sounds ike a crazy contract signing Ariza for 53 mill

but he is what our team needs,

but another hting we can do right now is trade Turk to Houston for shane battier, they got their clutch guy we got our defense, plus mcgrady is as good as gone
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:21 AM   #13 (permalink)
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BC brought all the best players he could over the break, and the players are not the problem, it is fairly obvious that the coaches do not help the players mesh around, the players meshing will not just happen by itself, it needs direction, jay triano is obviously not better than mitchell, and that's saying a lot.

they are shit coaches, and the talent on our team is undeniable, but the fact that our leadership sucks dick (not BC, triano and the rest of the coaches.) is the reason we are sucking hard.
+100

And all the stupid Ariza talk kills me. It was reported last summer that BC talked to Ariza and he wasn't interested incoming here and took less $$ to come here. BC got the best players possible to come here this summer that actually wanted to come here. We were praising him like nothing i'd seen here and now calling for his head is nuts. The only real mistake he mad was Triano and thats a biggie. But this is one of the best GM's in the league. Who would replace him.............another babcock type who would fuck this up alot more then you ever imagined.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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change tree of your starters (Hedo Bargs and caldy) for some games and see what happens (maybe they can grow a little balls and attitude). Bench your guys when they don't move their ass off on D. At least you can't get more than 146 point there's not enough time... aniway this is never going to happen 'cause Triano is a daisy and that's BC fault not assemblin the team
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sorry thriller, but this team is much better than what they're showing. much.

not that long ago we were playing .500 ball and were unlucky not to be significantly over .500. We almost beat the suns in pheonix. It WAS going right for a while.

Colangelo has put together a pretty good team. Right now the coaches are fucking things up.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think some of you guys are missing the point. This is not a trade thread, or a fire the coach thread. This is, unfortunately about the bleak future of this franchise, period.

Thriller is absolutely right. Colangelo has not gotten the job done. You can blame the coaching or lack thereof all you want. Who hired the guy and said he had a great basketball mind and wore the matching track suit like they were Tenenbaums or something? The dude was way too quick to can Sam, and now he's stuck with a guy that is drowning.

He needs to fix the problem for his non-coach in a hurry, because he is a big part of ensuring how far in over his head Triano is right now. You can't have guys that are killing your chances and not be able to say anything about it to them or the rest of the team. Either that "everybody hold hands" culture has to go, or the players that are not making that culture work have got to go.

Hedo will be fine. Marion would have been the better way to go in order to make things work with guys like Bargs, but that doesn't incriminate Hedo entirely. It's also entirely possible that had Marion not been working for a contract, he would have looked at the situation the coach constantly presents this team, with the backing of the GM, and played turtle himself. It's entirely possible that Marion's contract situation was the only thing that allowed him to overcome the shitty culture created here.
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Who's missing the point?

I don't disagree with you entirely LX, Colangelo has messed up with the coaching staff.

I was against the Triano hiring at the time and was very skeptical to say the least.

Still the main theme of this thread is shitting on the players assembled. It's not the players who are the problem... sure we could do with better, tougher guys at some positions, but I know the guys that are here can look wayyy better as a team than they are showing now. Because i saw it a few weeks ago.
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm just saying Thriller's post was more about the intrinsic nature of the GM's philosophy than it is about the players or the coach.

I agree that the team assembled is more than adequate. So why don't we see the GM saying anything about how they are severely underachieving like he was so ready to last season, with a far lesser assembled cast? Remember - when we almost beat Boston and were actually sitting at .500 in spite of JO's knees when the panic button was hit?

Colangelo has put himself in a horrible situation. He desperately needs to make a move that improves upon the early promise of this team, or else he's going to see the memories of that promise fade very quickly. And I'm not talking about some golden trade like Ariza for Hedo. He needs to move some guys out more than he needs to bring anybody in. He needs to clean up his mistakes.

Last edited by LX; 12-03-2009 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:26 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Once confidence in BC is lost by the peeps on this board, it's going to be ca-RAZY up in here. He was like, the Teflon Don.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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He needs to move some guys out more than he needs to bring anybody in.
Good words .
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