Time for BC to move on. S - Page 4
Old 07-05-2012, 05:30 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I know I felt very bad for the team when it looked like they were operating on the basis of grabbing headlines. At this point, after all the pain, I want nothing less than heading towards long term stability and success. There has been enough veering off course over the years. No more please, for any reason.
I agree about headlines comment. It was such a departure from what has been going on the last couple years. I also agree that I'm glad it's settled down - this was media driven more than it was the Raps IMO
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:50 PM   #62 (permalink)
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You have to like when people blame Colangelo for not having a plan just because they don't see it. You have to be pretty confident in yourself to make such a statement, because you're implying that:

1. you have all the relevant facts and there's no possible way that a plan may exist but it's not clear due to lack of information

and

2. a group of people with combined decades of experience would go approach a critical point in the franchise history without a clear idea or planning and would just play it by the ear

It's especially hard to understand this position this year, when the plan was actually outlined fairly clearly for a while now. The idea was to acquire a veteran PG and a SF through free agency or draft. The targets were identified (Nash, Igoudala, Deng, Gay, Batum, Lowry, Barnes, Waiters, Lillard) and presumably trade avenues were explored. Few people would be privvy to the inner details. We went agressively after the available targets (Nash, Lowry), nobody can fault BC for how he approached the Nash situation.

Obviously, there are tons of variables outside of our control, we were unlucky to lose the coin flip, unlucky to see all of our top draft targets go before us, unlucky to see Nash turn down a superior deal for a chance at a title (despite signs pointing he's not a ring chaser). Almost nothing went our way through no fault of ours and we had to settle for second or third best options.

It remains to be seen what we will do about the SF position, we may still be able to snatch AI or a similar veteran, or we may have to settle for fields/demar/JJ there and postpone the decision until next year when we'll have a shitload of cap space again (and a much better team to draw free agents to).

Despite all the bad luck, we may end up in a much better position when the season starts.

In my opinion, BC has been nearly flawless in execution ever since the 2011 draft. I criticized him a lot for his moves in 2010 when we needlessly signed guys like Amir or Kleiza when we should have went full tank. I was also against his plan A this summer to get Nash/AI because I think it's way too early for that.

However, outside of that, there's little to criticize, JV was a great pick, JJ, Bayless, Forbes, Gray, Magloire, Andersen, Uzoh, Barbosa trade were all great little moves, we've tanked as hard as we could without becoming ridiculous like the Nets/GSW (although I would have liked to be shameless about it). It remains to be seen if the fields and ross moves were good or bad, but the trade for lowry is almost certainly a steal, even if only because he makes peanuts and gives us major flexibility next summer.

My only problem (and at times it makes pretty pissed off) is that he's way too impatient for a rebuilding situation. We got lucky that nash bailed, because it would have been a major step back long term. But I've always said this about him, BC is really, really good at executing his plans.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:04 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I live in Vancouver so while this post started I was working. While at work I heard about the Lowry trade. Come home, first thing i do is come to this board and read this entire thread to see when ya'll flipped. HILARIOUS!! I love it. Very entertaining!

I think Docholiday99 & moremilk have a good approach about the team and BC. He has done a good job. Winning is the best recruit and unfortunately we couldn't win. Last year was the first season where there was no pieces of anything prior to BC coming to T.O. Free Agency is only 5 days in. He said PG and SF. Team is way better than last years team. I like his moves so far. We got the second best pg available (youth, skill, upside)

Last edited by Toebee; 07-05-2012 at 06:06 PM. Reason: My grammar sucks
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:19 PM   #64 (permalink)
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he's done better than anyone else could do and he's done it taking a lot of risks to try and improve the team, that's all you can ask for, i don't see anyone else better out there
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:45 PM   #65 (permalink)
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i like the post i made on the first page. especiall the part where i said i would stick with bc
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:51 PM   #66 (permalink)
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My only problem (and at times it makes pretty pissed off) is that he's way too impatient for a rebuilding situation. We got lucky that nash bailed, because it would have been a major step back long term. But I've always said this about him, BC is really, really good at executing his plans.
Too bad it took him 5 years of bungling before finally latched on to some decent ideas.

He's very fortunate that he came to T.O. with such a stellar rep... or else he'd have probably been gone a couple of years back.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:52 PM   #67 (permalink)
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What a difference 24 hours can make.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:58 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Too bad it took him 5 years of bungling before finally latched on to some decent ideas.

He's very fortunate that he came to T.O. with such a stellar rep... or else he'd have probably been gone a couple of years back.
Totally agree, he is extremely lucky to have accomplished so much to garner such a steller reputation or else he would not have earned such an extended opportunity as he has.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:28 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Gotta love the convenient naivety of people who think overpaying a 38 year old constitutes the following of a plan. I never claimed there was no plan, just that it was obvious that the plan talked about for two years, which included a pg of the future, not the past, had been veered from. Yeah - obvious. Surely it was a plan in terms of seat sales, but I admit I have no time or interest in that at this point. Seen it all already. Hopefully that's the last of it and some people can enjoy some decent basketball instead of the "flawless" execution of the GM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:35 PM   #70 (permalink)
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meh. I look at history, every "player of the future" has bolted when the time came, so really, you get some young guy like we have and who's to say he aint gone when his contract is up? So 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other, its not a stretch to take Nash in that scenario, either way you get a three year rental, three years is a LONG time man. It could have been great for the Franchise. But if we do lose Lowry in a few years when its UFA time, you tell me, did we make the move for the future, with his 6 million dropping off the books, as opposed to Nash and his 12 coming off?

Food for thought. Anyhow, Nash chase is in rearview, we look forward as fans, and as a franchise and chase whatever success we can. That what you do in life, don't dwell on shit, just take positives and move forward.

Go Raps!
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:43 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Totally agree, he is extremely lucky to have accomplished so much to garner such a steller reputation with daddy's help or else he would not have earned such an extended opportunity as he has.
Fixed.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:49 PM   #72 (permalink)
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you guys are pretty lame.

Ignore how hard it is to attract ANYONE to come here, that's convenient isn't it. As if it isn't a tangible hurdle that EVERYONE throws in Toronto's face on a regular basis.

The only thing BC needs to move on to is the next phase in trying to build a winner, and that's using his tradable assets and possible amnesty provision to improve the talent level at the 3 spot. I'm sure he's doing that as we speak.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:57 PM   #73 (permalink)
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you guys are pretty lame.

Ignore how hard it is to attract ANYONE to come here, that's convenient isn't it. As if it isn't a tangible hurdle that EVERYONE throws in Toronto's face on a regular basis.

The only thing BC needs to move on to is the next phase in trying to build a winner, and that's using his tradable assets and possible amnesty provision to improve the talent level at the 3 spot. I'm sure he's doing that as we speak.
one of the few bang on posts here
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:16 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Building a winner makes it a much more attractive place. I supported that part of the Nash offer if it was only one move of to or three. He needed at least one more vet here to make that work properly, and I wasn't real confident in how that was going to happen, but was willing to wait and see. Then the Fields thing made me very worried.

It's not that hard to attract ANYONE. Maybe we'd be better off if that excuse really came into play and forays into the FA market for the likes of Hedo, Kapono, Kleiza and Feilds would have been tempered. The patience of late, and the piecing together of a well-balanced team with a nice coach will do wonders - far more than a pg of the past. There is a real chance to get real stability and success long-term. That is very attractive to players. And the right kinds of players - not the Hedos and He Don'ts. No need for excuses for the guy in charge, just keep headed in the right direction now.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:19 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I agree, I'm pointing out for some of the less knowledgeable than yourself that BC might not be perfect, but there are a lot of things in play, he certainly isn't inept by any means, he's actually quite savvy.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:34 PM   #76 (permalink)
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you guys are pretty lame.

Ignore how hard it is to attract ANYONE to come here, that's convenient isn't it. As if it isn't a tangible hurdle that EVERYONE throws in Toronto's face on a regular basis.

The only thing BC needs to move on to is the next phase in trying to build a winner, and that's using his tradable assets and possible amnesty provision to improve the talent level at the 3 spot. I'm sure he's doing that as we speak.
I agree with this
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:36 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I agree, I'm pointing out for some of the less knowledgeable than yourself that BC might not be perfect, but there are a lot of things in play, he certainly isn't inept by any means, he's actually quite savvy.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:54 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I agree, I'm pointing out for some of the less knowledgeable than yourself that BC might not be perfect, but there are a lot of things in play, he certainly isn't inept by any means, he's actually quite savvy.
Meh. From day 1 people treated this guy like a God and bought every smooth-talkin' line that he spit out... and I don't know know why. The guy learned his job under his dad and was NEVER under any pressure to perform when he was in PHX. Total job security for about a decade.

The point about not being able to attract FAs is certainly valid but handing out ridiculous contracts to Hedo and Kapono isn't going to win you any Exec of the Year awards... and to this point he's got MAYBE one player that he's drafted for us who might actually look like an all-star?

I don't see anything that he's brought to the franchise that we couldn't have got somewhere else for a much cheaper price tag.

I will say though that this is the first off season that I've actually had some hope (although I still worry about passing on Drummond) and we finally seem to be bringing in the right kind of players to build this team correctly.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:16 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Meh. From day 1 people treated this guy like a God and bought every smooth-talkin' line that he spit out... and I don't know know why. The guy learned his job under his dad and was NEVER under any pressure to perform when he was in PHX. Total job security for about a decade.

The point about not being able to attract FAs is certainly valid but handing out ridiculous contracts to Hedo and Kapono isn't going to win you any Exec of the Year awards... and to this point he's got MAYBE one player that he's drafted for us who might actually look like an all-star?

I don't see anything that he's brought to the franchise that we couldn't have got somewhere else for a much cheaper price tag.

I will say though that this is the first off season that I've actually had some hope (although I still worry about passing on Drummond) and we finally seem to be bringing in the right kind of players to build this team correctly.
i'm not massively pro or negative on BC (prob just in the positive bracket.) But this board is way too harsh on him IMO. He's a good wheeler dealer on smaller trades and he's tried his best to improve the team.

not really sure how you can talk about his drafting. Most are still to be proven either way. The Bargs one is very tired now but at the least he drafted a very good player. Derozan at 9 is a good pick even tho he hasn't come on how we wanted. He's got decent stats in this league and is a decent trade asset if we decide to go that way. Ed was a good pick at 13 and is a similar story to DD. Val looks like a great pick-up at 5, although totally unproven. Ross was a left-field choice but when people looked into him a bit more we discovered that he has a skill-set that matches our team really well. logic wise at least, he was a good pick.

the perfect example of people's knee-jerks on here was the 24hrs between nash saying no and us agreeing the deal for lowry. hilarious. haven't heard much from fk24 have we!?
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