Tim Chisholm: Defense Not the Only Issue for Raps

ClingRap · 12-03-2009, 07:47 PM

Apologies if this is a re-post, but some good stuff here:

Quote:

The fact is that it appears that Triano has some serious damage control to do considering he's stuck in this job, and it begins with him exploring all of the seemingly valid criticisms being laid at his feet. If he is truly not calling out players for fear of their sensitivities ('cough' Andrea Bargnani 'cough') then Jarrett Jack was right to gripe about it to the press. There are so many individual breakdowns in rotations on defense that can be laid at the feet of Bargnani and Jose Calderon right now that even the possibility that they aren't being reprimanded for it is going to boil the blood of any paying customer at the Air Canada Centre. Plus, we have yet to see much of any signs of the get-out-on-the-break or passing-based offenses that Triano preached to every corner about in preseason. His current system, despite his plethora of scorers, has looked laughably easy to stop in the last week or two of the season. It's as though he came out to start the season with an idea of how to run this team's offense and was subsequently shocked to learn that opposing teams would scout it and learn to defend it. The team has been reduced to a series of pick-and-roll and isolation plays that may as well have been designed by the man Triano replaced a year ago today.

Not to pile it all on Triano, but he isn't helping his cause with fans with his Mitchell-esque remarks at the end of games, either. His casual "the shots didn't fall tonight" and "there are no problems with the starters" routine after Tuesday's loss to Washington were atypically dismissive for Triano and last night's claim that he felt his team was really trying out on the court was either delusional or insulting considering the records approached or broken for ineptitude.

Quote:

As the team is currently constructed, a poor job is being done to prioritize certain players on offense. Clearly Bosh is the key figure in whatever this team does offensively, but after him it gets muddled. Who is the next guy the team is looking to get involved? Bargnani? Turkoglu? What is Calderon's function, then? He should simply be setting the table for these guys, but his assists are way down this season (6.4 compared to 8.9 last year) and it looks like he's only valuable when he too is scoring. What is DeRozan meant to offer the starting five?

The reason behind some of this is coaching, but it also looks to be the makeup of the team. This club, it has turned out, has incompatible talent. I always preferred this team keeping Shawn Marion over acquiring Hedo because it created less redundancy on the roster while also servicing a need (defense and rebounding). However, the team went with Hedo and is now facing the reality that squeezing another scorer into this core might have been a foolhardy effort.

Here's an example: Hedo broke out with the Magic because he found himself with the ball at the point a great deal of the time for the first time in his career. He plays at his best when he has the ball in his hands and he is allowed to create for himself and others. He is a rhythm player, and he needs the ball to stay in his rhythm and when he doesn't have the ball he tends to fade out of games. In Toronto, though, the team employs a ball-dominating guard in Calderon, who also needs control of the offense to stay productive. Right now, Calderon sees more of the ball, so Turkoglu is wildly out of rhythm (his shooting percentage overall is solid, but game-to-game he's incredibly inconsistent since the more shots he takes the more he misses) and he's more often than not relegated to being a REALLY expensive spot-up shooter. However, he is given enough time at the point to upset Calderon's rhythm, so his assist numbers have fallen off and he's become more of a scorer, which the team already has in abundance.

Here is the problem with having so many scorers: there is only one ball!

In an attempt to keep everyone around Bosh productive, no one gets enough shots to stay productive on a consistent, game-to-game basis. Plus, Bosh, Bargnani, Turkoglu and Calderon all start the game together, which means that someone is going to get left out of the early game attack and will need to find another time to get in the flow of the game. It's not going to be when the bench comes in, though, because that just gives you Jarrett Jack and Marco Belinelli, two more guys who need shots to stay effective as players.

Now, teams like Phoenix can adjust to a situation like this because they have one of history's all-time great playmakers in Steve Nash running the show, a man who can handle the challenge of keeping everybody productive on the court, plus Phoenix a more rigid pecking order than Toronto does, anyway. Channing Frye isn't meant to get as many shots as Bargnani, Grant Hill isn't meant to get as many shots as Hedo Turkoglu and Steve Nash is far better than Calderon at balancing his scoring against his passing. The Suns have one primary bench scorer, Leandro Barbosa, and he actually gets consistent touches when he comes in the game, unlike Belinelli. The Raptors have paid a lot of money to a lot of players to all basically do the same thing and the team as a whole is suffering as a result.

Then, of course, there is the defense. Here's the thing: this team isn't ever going to be a dominant defensive force. If they could sort out their offensive struggles they might be able to mitigate the defense, somewhat, but so long as "Traffic Cone Calderon" and "Rotation-free Bargnani" play two of the most crucial defensive positions on the court for this team, defense can pretty much be written-off as a possibility for this club.

LINK - tsn.ca

**halphbreedballer** · 12-03-2009, 07:56 PM

Wow this is spot on!!

The only thing is, that the only way that I see us getting rid of one of our bad defenders is trading them with Bosh....

Like a Bosh & Jose 4 Beidrins & Ellis

Cause there is no way AB & Bosh get traded together.

**•LX•** · 12-03-2009, 07:57 PM

Here's the link

Chisholm: Defence not the only issue for struggling Raptors

I found this kinda disturbing

Quote:

Then, as we wind down this epic tome we inevitably come to the topic of trades. Well, here's the dirt, kids: it ain't gonna happen – at least not for a while. Bargnani has a poison-pill provision in his contract, making him hard to move

Anybody know about this? I liked the signing, because at the very least it meant some value could come back. What is this poison pill shit, and how does he end up getting a provision that nobody but maybe Kobe has?

justizzllee · 12-03-2009, 07:57 PM

bringing hedo turkoglu in took some confidence out of players like bargs, bosh, and Calderon in second halfs, they soposedly brought in turk because of out second half strugles, but we strugled in d second half defensieli which led to offensive droughts, we need a defensive 3 guard im wonderin and still wondering why we let marion go, with marion and wright and a develoing derozan, den bellineli who i think is way better than a slightly overated turkoglu who just came to Raptors for the money not really to play basketball, we would have made a good team , not forgetting reggie we would be intensley tough on defence and have great offence.....basicalli get rid of triano and turkoglu or find a way to get them MORE focused...like Raptors fans deserve way more than a 7-13 start...not saying we are bad but we need some SERIOUS HELP

**halphbreedballer** · 12-03-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justizzllee

bringing hedo turkoglu in took some confidence out of players like bargs, bosh, and Calderon in second halfs, they soposedly brought in turk because of out second half strugles, but we strugled in d second half defensieli which led to offensive droughts, we need a defensive 3 guard im wonderin and still wondering why we let marion go, with marion and wright and a develoing derozan, den bellineli who i think is way better than a slightly overated turkoglu who just came to Raptors for the money not really to play basketball, we would have made a good team , not forgetting reggie we would be intensley tough on defence and have great offence.....basicalli get rid of triano and turkoglu or find a way to get them MORE focused...like Raptors fans deserve way more than a 7-13 start...not saying we are bad but we need some SERIOUS HELP

All I can say is huh?

**halphbreedballer** · 12-03-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by •LX•

Here's the link

Chisholm: Defence not the only issue for struggling Raptors

I found this kinda disturbing

Anybody know about this? I liked the signing, because at the very least it meant some value could come back. What is this poison pill shit, and how does he end up getting a provision that nobody but maybe Kobe has?

It's pretty standard...Maybe AB doesn't want to play anywhere else...& also it could only be till his new contract kicks in...

moremilk · 12-03-2009, 11:22 PM

there's nothing disturbing about it, at 10/yr, Bargnani is either a steal or a disaster.

lumi398 · 12-04-2009, 02:24 AM

Defense not the ONLY issue for the Raps:

They also have to deal with this -

Quote:

In his new book, Tim Donaghy claims that NBA referees influence the outcome of games with biased officiating for and against certain players.

Donaghy states that referees favor superstars, while whistling the lesser players for minor fouls.

"We would never call these types of fouls on superstars, just on the average players who didn't have star status," Donaghy wrote. "It was important to keep the stars on the floor."

komot · 12-04-2009, 02:45 AM

triano should learn from phil jackson, best thing i saw from jackson was when he odom a good stern yelling at when he didn't hussel even though they were winning by 20. if your gona be soft so will your team, unless we get a player like KG.

lumi398 · 12-04-2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komot

triano should learn from phil jackson, best thing i saw from jackson was when he odom a good stern yelling at when he didn't hussel even though they were winning by 20. if your gona be soft so will your team, unless we get a player like KG.

Hardly anyone is like KG anymore due to the Kool-aid..

Windex · 12-04-2009, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by •LX•

Anybody know about this? I liked the signing, because at the very least it meant some value could come back. What is this poison pill shit, and how does he end up getting a provision that nobody but maybe Kobe has?

I talked about it in the trade proposal thread

I takes place when an extention takes place the following season. He can no longer be traded for a player(s) of equal money. Instead, his current salary is averaged along with the salaries he is set to make in the future. That average becomes his incoming salaries for trade purposes

raptor123 · 12-04-2009, 09:11 AM

Some reporters as we posters are just as bad as our d on this team. The Jarett Jack interview because of what he said throws many of track. Jack plays the blame game and everyone starts looking at Jose , hedo and Bargs.

What the fuck guys what about Jack, and Wright. Jacks d had been Jack shit but everyone seems to saying its all about his confidence, getting used to team mates.BC got it right he is to blame because he brought Jack in, the lazy fuck thinks hes doing his job,. I say it because Jack does not man up and state that he also should get better.

Put yourself in a Raptors uniform and you just played in that blow out game. Then you watch the interview and listen to what Jack said,

... what would you do ?
I would approach the little shit and ask him who r you talking about then ask him what about your d game ass hole.

Then I would slap him around alittle and tell him we r fucking team and if u r not willing to work the issues out as a team get the fuck out of here and go back to indy.
Too bad it won't happen because no one has the balls in the locker room to punch out Jack....never thought i would ever say this but where is TJ in the locker to give it to Jack

lol.

lumi398 · 12-04-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor123

Some reporters as we posters are just as bad as our d on this team. The Jarett Jack interview because of what he said throws many of track. Jack plays the blame game and everyone starts looking at Jose , hedo and Bargs.

What the fuck guys what about Jack, and Wright. Jacks d had been Jack shit but everyone seems to saying its all about his confidence, getting used to team mates.BC got it right he is to blame because he brought Jack in, the lazy fuck thinks hes doing his job,. I say it because Jack does not man up and state that he also should get better.

Put yourself in a Raptors uniform and you just played in that blow out game. Then you watch the interview and listen to what Jack said,

... what would you do ?
I would approach the little shit and ask him who r you talking about then ask him what about your d game ass hole.

Then I would slap him around alittle and tell him we r fucking team and if u r not willing to work the issues out as a team get the fuck out of here and go back to indy.
Too bad it won't happen because no one has the balls in the locker room to punch out Jack....never thought i would ever say this but where is TJ in the locker to give it to Jack

lol.

Jack's reply-

hey raptor123 don't worry bud, i'll hit some nice threes, pull some behind the back layups next game and i know your shiny yellow teeth will be showing because you will be smiling!

Superjudge · 12-04-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClingRap

Apologies if this is a re-post, but some good stuff here:

LINK - tsn.ca

Heh. Charles Oakley just said all of this in about 3000 less words.

henrymakepeace · 12-04-2009, 03:54 PM

Fuck Oakley. He never has anything constructive.

BballWatcher · 12-04-2009, 04:59 PM

The article is OK but articles talking about how we only have 1 ball to go around, etc. are just crying wolf. We're #4 in the league in scoring - offense is not our problem! Our problem is stopping guys - we're getting cut up by absolutely every team in the league!

kia4ever · 12-04-2009, 05:05 PM

why do ppl keep mentioning offence as if we're good at it. Our team speeds up the game so naturally we're going to score more. But if the other team is playing better offence than us we shouldn't be bragging.

12-03-2009, 07:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
halphbreedballer is Waiting for 2D's 1st in game wind mill Dunk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: T.O. Posts: 1,132 Representing:	Wow this is spot on!! The only thing is, that the only way that I see us getting rid of one of our bad defenders is trading them with Bosh.... Like a Bosh & Jose 4 Beidrins & Ellis Cause there is no way AB & Bosh get traded together. Last edited by halphbreedballer; 12-03-2009 at 08:22 PM.

12-04-2009, 09:11 AM	#12 (permalink)
raptor123 is A Raptor for life ! Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,248 Representing:	Some reporters as we posters are just as bad as our d on this team. The Jarett Jack interview because of what he said throws many of track. Jack plays the blame game and everyone starts looking at Jose , hedo and Bargs. What the fuck guys what about Jack, and Wright. Jacks d had been Jack shit but everyone seems to saying its all about his confidence, getting used to team mates.BC got it right he is to blame because he brought Jack in, the lazy fuck thinks hes doing his job,. I say it because Jack does not man up and state that he also should get better. Put yourself in a Raptors uniform and you just played in that blow out game. Then you watch the interview and listen to what Jack said,... what would you do ? I would approach the little shit and ask him who r you talking about then ask him what about your d game ass hole. Then I would slap him around alittle and tell him we r fucking team and if u r not willing to work the issues out as a team get the fuck out of here and go back to indy. Too bad it won't happen because no one has the balls in the locker room to punch out Jack....never thought i would ever say this but where is TJ in the locker to give it to Jack lol.

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12-03-2009, 07:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
justizzllee is dead inside. Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Representing:	bringing hedo turkoglu in took some confidence out of players like bargs, bosh, and Calderon in second halfs, they soposedly brought in turk because of out second half strugles, but we strugled in d second half defensieli which led to offensive droughts, we need a defensive 3 guard im wonderin and still wondering why we let marion go, with marion and wright and a develoing derozan, den bellineli who i think is way better than a slightly overated turkoglu who just came to Raptors for the money not really to play basketball, we would have made a good team , not forgetting reggie we would be intensley tough on defence and have great offence.....basicalli get rid of triano and turkoglu or find a way to get them MORE focused...like Raptors fans deserve way more than a 7-13 start...not saying we are bad but we need some SERIOUS HELP

12-03-2009, 11:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
moremilk is whatever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: toronto Posts: 4,909 Representing:	there's nothing disturbing about it, at 10/yr, Bargnani is either a steal or a disaster.

12-04-2009, 02:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
komot is a fucking genious whole team for wade Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 189 Representing:	triano should learn from phil jackson, best thing i saw from jackson was when he odom a good stern yelling at when he didn't hussel even though they were winning by 20. if your gona be soft so will your team, unless we get a player like KG.

12-04-2009, 03:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
henrymakepeace is what he is. Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 885 Representing:	Fuck Oakley. He never has anything constructive.

12-04-2009, 04:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
BballWatcher is kicking himself for being so emotionally invested in the Roller-coaster Raptors Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 825 Representing:	The article is OK but articles talking about how we only have 1 ball to go around, etc. are just crying wolf. We're #4 in the league in scoring - offense is not our problem! Our problem is stopping guys - we're getting cut up by absolutely every team in the league!

12-04-2009, 05:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
kia4ever is dead inside. Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 281 Representing:	why do ppl keep mentioning offence as if we're good at it. Our team speeds up the game so naturally we're going to score more. But if the other team is playing better offence than us we shouldn't be bragging.