Thoughts on Bargnani - Page 2
Old 04-08-2011, 09:45 AM   #21 (permalink)
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the way i see it with bargnani, his offense dictates his defense. so if hes hitting his shots and having an impressive game, he will at least play some defense. if not, well we all know what will happen
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:47 AM   #22 (permalink)
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i used to be one of those guys that would get excited about Bargs 30pt efforts.. but I realize that when this dude is not scoring he is completely useless on the court

at least other players can contribute in other areas of the game when their offense is off.. but Bargs does not rebound, block shots or make his teammates better in any way

TRAAAAAAAAAAAADE
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:48 AM   #23 (permalink)
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nobody's comparing him to dirk anymore.... get off that ridiculous hate notion.

the truth of it all is that anyone hating or praising AB is being overly emotional. He has struggled alot defensively, but most of the Raptors have this year. He's shown flashes of offensive brilliance, but it's not been consistent enough. The guy is 25, yes soon 26 for those math specialists, and he's shown there is still room to improve. This AB must go philosophy is pathetic, but he's also never been heralded as the guy by anyone other than haters trying to slam him. He's another relatively young piece with more upside on an otherwise very young and inexperienced team.

Let's all realize that this team is very far from accomplishing anything significant regardless of what happens this offseason.
Really? Because I'm fairly sure that BOTH BC and Triano said as much when the season started.

I've never been a guy who's had a problem with players struggling.... as long as I felt like they were TRYING. It's why I defended Haffa... and then Graham... and then Weems.

Bargs doesn't try (unless we're talking about shooting the ball).

He makes little to no effort to defend and little to no effort to rebound the ball.

We see this EVERY damn game. It's not "hate"... it's reality.

A 7' starting C in the NBA avging 30+ minutes/gm.... with TWO double-digit rebound games this season. TWO!

How do you possibly defend that?
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:48 AM   #24 (permalink)
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the way i see it with bargnani, his offense dictates his defense. so if hes hitting his shots and having an impressive game, he will at least play some defense. if not, well we all know what will happen
I've seen him play good on Offense and stink it up on Defense. But let's say you're right. Do we really want that type of player on this team?
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:52 AM   #25 (permalink)
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You should know that trying to defend Bargs means loosing time. So why bother? Bytheway Bargs is #15 in scoring this year...what a waste of talent.
And now i'm ready to be shooted....aim at the chest.
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:55 AM   #26 (permalink)
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You should know that trying to defend Bargs means loosing time. So why bother? Bytheway Bargs is #15 in scoring this year...what a waste of talent.
And now i'm ready to be shooted....aim at the chest.
Awesome. Let's just focus on acquiring guys who only care about scoring and we'll try to win games 140-130.

Oops. We tried that.... and it didn't work.
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Old 04-08-2011, 10:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Really? Because I'm fairly sure that BOTH BC and Triano said as much when the season started.

I've never been a guy who's had a problem with players struggling.... as long as I felt like they were TRYING. It's why I defended Haffa... and then Graham... and then Weems.

Bargs doesn't try (unless we're talking about shooting the ball).

He makes little to no effort to defend and little to no effort to rebound the ball.

We see this EVERY damn game. It's not "hate"... it's reality.

A 7' starting C in the NBA avging 30+ minutes/gm.... with TWO double-digit rebound games this season. TWO!

How do you possibly defend that?
Show me this and I'll accept it as fact. Everywhere I've seen is an account of looking to build a team around pieces. Yes, Bargnani was expected to help lead this year, but our team is so young that he is considered a vet as a result. You're fooling yourself if you think anybody has been preaching AB as a franchise player. Look at his salary extension and it tells you that by BC not giving him a max contract that he sees him only as a piece.

try to relax and have a discussion, rather than rallying the troops.
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Old 04-08-2011, 10:57 AM   #28 (permalink)
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With a bottle of wine under me
Bargani has three sides that will amaze you every single play.

1. Offense versatility
Combination of pump fakes, dribble penetrations (sic!) and moves around the hoop (sic!), layups and dunks and the ever steady jumper. Very blessed offensive player.

2. Defensive ability
I swear I remember a game where he defended Howard 1 on 1 and did well. I swear I remember a stretch where he actually was a good shot-blocker. On his own man even! And in 4th quarters he became a defesive stopper!

3. Passing
I admit it was never used in Raptors, but in fact he was always an able passer. Last time Triano literally asked to move the ball - and he did! in last OKC win. And youtube has highlights of his no-look passes.

And yet all three have kind of an on-off switch that are OFF most of the time. And then he just settles. Every play, just settles. Should watch replays of start of game jumpballs, does he bother to jump at all?
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:29 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Awesome. Let's just focus on acquiring guys who only care about scoring and we'll try to win games 140-130.

Oops. We tried that.... and it didn't work.
I guess that's what happened with Bosh.... lol..... jokes.
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shifty.py View Post
With a bottle of wine under me
Bargani has three sides that will amaze you every single play.

1. Offense versatility
Combination of pump fakes, dribble penetrations (sic!) and moves around the hoop (sic!), layups and dunks and the ever steady jumper. Very blessed offensive player.

2. Defensive ability
I swear I remember a game where he defended Howard 1 on 1 and did well. I swear I remember a stretch where he actually was a good shot-blocker. On his own man even! And in 4th quarters he became a defesive stopper!

3. Passing
I admit it was never used in Raptors, but in fact he was always an able passer. Last time Triano literally asked to move the ball - and he did! in last OKC win. And youtube has highlights of his no-look passes.

And yet all three have kind of an on-off switch that are OFF most of the time. And then he just settles. Every play, just settles. Should watch replays of start of game jumpballs, does he bother to jump at all?
It comes down to effort with AB which is what is so frustrating for all who watch him play...He has the tools to do it all but he doesn't.
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Old 04-08-2011, 02:13 PM   #31 (permalink)
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It comes down to effort with AB which is what is so frustrating for all who watch him play...He has the tools to do it all but he doesn't.
This

I like to think one of these years it will all just click for him and he'll have a breakout year but it's getting frustrating.
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Old 04-08-2011, 02:16 PM   #32 (permalink)
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It comes down to effort with AB which is what is so frustrating for all who watch him play...He has the tools to do it all but he doesn't.
True, and at some point with players like that fans throw up their arms and say they've had enough. I was rooting for him going into this season and thought he'd improve on the rebounding end and i always thought he was a good one on one defender and hoped he'd improve on his help defense. But his lack of effort and sheer lack of ergency to improve is frustrating and i've come to realize he is who he is and is likely not going to improve much in his deficiencies, therefore i just don't think we can go anywhere with him.
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Old 04-08-2011, 02:55 PM   #33 (permalink)
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True, and at some point with players like that fans throw up their arms and say they've had enough. I was rooting for him going into this season and thought he'd improve on the rebounding end and i always thought he was a good one on one defender and hoped he'd improve on his help defense. But his lack of effort and sheer lack of ergency to improve is frustrating and i've come to realize he is who he is and is likely not going to improve much in his deficiencies, therefore i just don't think we can go anywhere with him.
the "e" is nowhere even close to the "u" on the keyboard. So this post is funny.
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Old 04-08-2011, 02:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
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the "e" is nowhere even close to the "u" on the keyboard. So this post is funny.
Urgency.....lol


Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:08 PM   #35 (permalink)
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In all fairness, I think jeff is trying to create his own dialect.

Energy + urgency = ergency
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm really shocked that no one can see a pattern here.

Whenever he's fighting through a bunch of nagging injuries and illnesses, he sucks.

It was the same as in his second season.
This.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:12 PM   #37 (permalink)
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so what was the problem last season?
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I seem to notice everytime all the Bargs loyalists do is copy-and-paste each others' statements defending this SG. Quite frankly, I find it repetitive. "He's young", "Like it or not, he's this team's best player", "He's not injury-prone", "He's only going to get better"...etc How many times do we have to see the same arguments over and over??

While I agree that he shouldn't be the only one to feel the full brunt of many people, we're not talking about the team as a whole, we're talking about an individual here. Nevermind the passing, the steals, the assists and all that other crap. We just want him to grab (offensive/defensive) boards. But I guess for someone who's earning $38 million that's just too much to ask.
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Old 04-09-2011, 08:48 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Really? Because I'm fairly sure that BOTH BC and Triano said as much when the season started.

I've never been a guy who's had a problem with players struggling.... as long as I felt like they were TRYING. It's why I defended Haffa... and then Graham... and then Weems.

Bargs doesn't try (unless we're talking about shooting the ball).

He makes little to no effort to defend and little to no effort to rebound the ball.

We see this EVERY damn game. It's not "hate"... it's reality.

A 7' starting C in the NBA avging 30+ minutes/gm.... with TWO double-digit rebound games this season. TWO!

How do you possibly defend that?
Never mind the stats, you look at one defensive possession and it's enough to wrench your guts. And you know that you can never build anything if you continue to accept it. JT can repeat the right things, but it's not enough to learn what to say. Anyone can do that. What about Bargnani's "illness"? What can you do when your tail-between-the-legsitus flare up?
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:10 AM   #40 (permalink)
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It's really being overstated.... people need to stop embellishing things to justify their hate.

Yeah I get it, you don't like Bargnani, but he's not the sole defensive issue and he's certainly not the reason we're a losing club.

Say it as many times as you want each thread, but it actually discredits your opinion. Maybe I'm expecting too much when I ask for arguments based in reason, but I'm just tired of reading thread after thread filled with hatred and embellished points. Maybe it's my fault for logging in to RF too often....
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