For those that say the JO experiment was low risk
Old 02-13-2009, 07:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default For those that say the JO experiment was low risk

Toronto's cost for the JO experiment:

-- 2 first round picks (Hibbert & picked owed to Miami)
-- A starting PG averaging 15 ppg & 5 ast per in TJ Ford
-- A starting Center in Rasho
-- Likely starter and former NBA All Rookie Second Teamer in Moon
-- Decent bench player in Baston
-- 3 million cash
-- Missing the playoffs and the firing of Sam Mitchell

Toronto's benefit for the JO deal:

-- 2 month rental of Shawn Marion & 17 million in cap relief
-- 2nd round pick in Jawai who has yet to play
-- Marcus Banks and his 2+ years remaining on his contract

It was an epic fail guys, no doubt about it. Funniest part is that everybody that knew a damn thing about JO, knew he wouldnt fit here, except BC. O well. Another exec of the decade move
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It was an epic fail

Epic

Still think we should've traded TJ to move up in the draft last year.
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Oh crikey, here we go again

If had a buck for everytime some dumbass decided to use hindsight to twist the facts as part his own OPINION of what happened to make some badass and agressivestatementy of his own delluded truth I'd be rich.

Toronto's cost for the JO experiment:

-- 1 first round picks (picked owed to Miami)
-- A starting PG averaging 15 ppg & 5 ast per in TJ Ford (already have a better one)
-- A starting Center in Rasho (have a better one, that might even get better)-- Likely starter and former NBA All Rookie Second Teamer in Moon (you're fucking kidding right????)
-- Decent bench player in Baston (holyjesus fuck, he hasn't seen the floor in three years)
-- 3 million cash (who cares)
-- Missing the playoffs and the firing of Sam Mitchell (missing the playoffs maybe, Mitchell, you have no way of knowing that one way or the other, and considering he's been rumoured to be gone for two years, I'd say the writing was on the wall there long ago)

Toronto's benefit for the JO deal:

-- Shawn Marion
-- 2nd round pick in Jawai who has yet to play (but has not shown himself to be any better or worse than that stiff Hibbert)
-- Marcus Banks and his 2+ years remaining on his contract (banks ya had to take, and he's a more than capable player)

You know, it's funny how you can just step up and rip apart shit like that. I would LOVE to see you explain all that to the GM one day in person, just love it, think he might have a few explanations?? Nah, no, not likely, the mastermind that is UGO FIRST wou;ld cause old BC to freeze up and admit defeat immediately.
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
Toronto's cost for the JO experiment:

-- 2 first round picks (Hibbert & picked owed to Miami)
-- A starting PG averaging 15 ppg & 5 ast per in TJ Ford
-- A starting Center in Rasho
-- Likely starter and former NBA All Rookie Second Teamer in Moon
-- Decent bench player in Baston
-- 3 million cash
-- Missing the playoffs and the firing of Sam Mitchell

Toronto's benefit for the JO deal:

-- 2 month rental of Shawn Marion & 17 million in cap relief
-- 2nd round pick in Jawai who has yet to play
-- Marcus Banks and his 2+ years remaining on his contract

It was an epic fail guys, no doubt about it. Funniest part is that everybody that knew a damn thing about JO, knew he wouldnt fit here, except BC. O well. Another exec of the decade move
Yet most here had a hard on for this deal. lol

I said at the time that i'd rather get a SF and keep Rasho, and i was essentially told i was crazy!
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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ya, but I, like many, actually believed that 3 weeks of being poked and prodded by doctors was actually fair enough to say aguy was indeed healthy.

I STILL say the whole med staff needs to be replaced.
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh crikey, here we go again

If had a buck for everytime some dumbass decided to use hindsight to twist the facts as part his own OPINION of what happened to make some badass and agressivestatementy of his own delluded truth I'd be rich.
+1

If we use hindsight, then i guess we should still have Charlie V, which turned into T.J which got us JO and on and on and on.....?

So essentially, CV got us JO..or Ahhhh?? lol


It becomes really stupid after a while!

Last edited by jeffb; 02-13-2009 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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the thing is, you can do it the other way round.

you see missing the playoffs will get us that super rookie 2 guard, and MArion stays while BArgnani's progress continues and he's a 25 and 10 guy, Calderon get shealthy this summer and Ukic improves. JAwai gets into shape and POW who knew it he learns from Jake how to be a great utility guy. Graham stays as good joey and Hump cpomes back and learns to wave a towel and smile..... Banks, well he remains a good 3rd PG for insurance, which is important, sinc etoronto is now set to make it to the fucking finals.

half empty

half full

its all bullshit
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ugo, the 3 millions you put on the "Cost" list should be on the "Benefit" list .... Miami is paying 3 Millions to Toronto.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ugo, the 3 millions you put on the "Cost" list should be on the "Benefit" list .... Miami is paying 3 Millions to Toronto.
Yup. Basically it's 3million dollars for a mid-late first round pick in 2010 or beyond! Plus we keep our pick this year (playoffs or no playoffs).
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
Toronto's cost for the JO experiment:

-- 2 first round picks (Hibbert & picked owed to Miami)
-- A starting PG averaging 15 ppg & 5 ast per in TJ Ford
-- A starting Center in Rasho
-- Likely starter and former NBA All Rookie Second Teamer in Moon
-- Decent bench player in Baston
-- 3 million cash
-- Missing the playoffs and the firing of Sam Mitchell

Toronto's benefit for the JO deal:

-- 2 month rental of Shawn Marion & 17 million in cap relief
-- 2nd round pick in Jawai who has yet to play
-- Marcus Banks and his 2+ years remaining on his contract

It was an epic fail guys, no doubt about it. Funniest part is that everybody that knew a damn thing about JO, knew he wouldnt fit here, except BC. O well. Another exec of the decade move
your post strongly makes me doubt you understand the concept of risk ... If I bet that tomorrow the temperature will be under 10 celsius, there's a very low risk of losing. If I lose, will you come tomorrow and say I was an idiot for betting?

yes, the trade was costly for us. But we're in this situation because we played much much worse than ANYBODY predicted. There was not a single human being who predicted we'd be 14th in the east. If we were 2-3 wins over .500 and fighting for the 4th spot, this trade doesn't happen. Now we have to be a player in 2009 or risk losing Bosh the next season.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
Toronto's cost for the JO experiment:

-- 2 first round picks (Hibbert & picked owed to Miami)
-- A starting PG averaging 15 ppg & 5 ast per in TJ Ford
-- A starting Center in Rasho
-- Likely starter and former NBA All Rookie Second Teamer in Moon
-- Decent bench player in Baston
-- 3 million cash
-- Missing the playoffs and the firing of Sam Mitchell

Toronto's benefit for the JO deal:

-- 2 month rental of Shawn Marion & 17 million in cap relief
-- 2nd round pick in Jawai who has yet to play
-- Marcus Banks and his 2+ years remaining on his contract

It was an epic fail guys, no doubt about it. Funniest part is that everybody that knew a damn thing about JO, knew he wouldnt fit here, except BC. O well. Another exec of the decade move
When you lay it all out like that, it looks even more horrible than I thought.

Except we were the ones receiving the cash (that MLSE will only use to line their pockets, yes, but they still got the money).
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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your post strongly makes me doubt you understand the concept of risk ... If I bet that tomorrow the temperature will be under 10 celsius, there's a very low risk of losing. If I lose, will you come tomorrow and say I was an idiot for betting?

yes, the trade was costly for us. But we're in this situation because we played much much worse than ANYBODY predicted. There was not a single human being who predicted we'd be 14th in the east. If we were 2-3 wins over .500 and fighting for the 4th spot, this trade doesn't happen. Now we have to be a player in 2009 or risk losing Bosh the next season.
Why does anybody want to keep Bosh, anyway? The guy lacks character and mental toughness.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
+1

If we use hindsight, then i guess we should still have Charlie V, which turned into T.J which got us JO and on and on and on.....?

So essentially, CV got us JO..or Ahhhh?? lol


It becomes really stupid after a while!
A great asset in Villanueva got us Marion and the horrible Banks contract, correct. We just kept downgrading over and over again.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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yeah, but Bosh remains a top 20 player in the league + he's young, good character, generates good marketing etc. It's not like players like appear every day. It's highly debateable whether paying him a MAX contract is worth it (I think not - but I'm just a fan). But there's no question that Bosh is a very good player that at the right price is a must keep.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Why does anybody want to keep Bosh, anyway? The guy lacks character and mental toughness.
COme on now.

I am a proud "Bosh basher" but you cannot say that Bosh lacks character.

That is just wrong
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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COme on now.

I am a proud "Bosh basher" but you cannot say that Bosh lacks character.

That is just wrong
You seem to be mistaking being a nice guy for having character on a basketball court.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You seem to be mistaking being a nice guy for having character on a basketball court.
No I am not.

You dont understand what character is.

A player with no character is Artest-what with the punching out fans and all.

Bosh is a good guy with lots of character, just absolutly no clutchness.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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No I am not.

You dont understand what character is.

A player with no character is Artest-what with the punching out fans and all.

Bosh is a good guy with lots of character, just absolutly no clutchness.
Artest has character on a basketball court. When things get to him, he actually raises his performance, and mentally he is far tougher than Chris Bosh.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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And again, being a good guy is not having "character" in the way I mean.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Bosh is a keeper.
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