Things could have been so different. - Page 2
Old 02-22-2011, 08:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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You make it sound like it was all so easily arranged. There were a lot of circumstances that had to go right to allow these guys to come together.

No organization was screwed Ammo. Bosh and Lebron were under contract for seven years and they honored their contracts quite suitably. It's not the huge moral equation you're making it out to be, as much as it's understandable that you don't like it.

Give me a break about Carmelo's intentions. He wanted a big paycheque. Period. He needed a deal done before the trade deadline or he would lose out. If you're going to question people's ability to see the truth, you ought to look a little closer yourself.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:15 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Those guys knew it long befor it happened. What do you think their respective teammates would have doen to those guys if they told them where they were going after the allstar break.
They would have given them sucha hard time. The situation would have been worse i think. Just sit back and think about it for a minute.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
is.....

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thats true, isnt new york screwing themselves over by making this trade?

a) trading pieces for melo and they arent trading scrubs. felton, i dunno who else but definatly people theyd prefer to keep

b) theyd be paying melo max money under THIS cba and his contract will count against their cap next year under the new, lower caped cba, thus reducing their ability to add good role players.

wouldnt it be better for newyork just to wait it out? melo wants to go there anyways.., theyd be shooting themselves in the foot by doing this, granted not as much as new jersey but still
Why? Does new york look like a team that cares about saving money? CBA, they laugh at that, as long as there is not a hard cap they will continue to spend as much as they need to build a contender. They were spending 90million (well 58 million pluss anohter 32x2 = 64 + 58 = 122 million) a season like 2 years ago for a dysfunctional, non-playoff team lead by a dysfunctional coach. Caps are for pussy teams like the raptors.....the real teams, that actually contend always go above and beyond, and money usually is not an issue (like it is here)
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:49 AM   #24 (permalink)
is.....

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respect to Masai Ujiri for pulling this theft

But we couldn't really do the same last year. Before LEbron with his decision and Bosh with the sneaking away there was no such notion as big all-stars deciding they want to play together for a specific team. World was a more innocent place.
um....boston sure did get this notion in there heads. After a shitty ass season losing like 60 games or something, they turned it around in one summer and won a championship.....i bet you wade, lebron and Bosh had this plan made since Bostons championship.....LA kinda has a big three with Kobe, Gasol and Bynum (although Bynum is always hurt)
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:09 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The only reason Boston was able to trade for Allen and Garnett is because they sucked for so long and accumulated assets that other teams wanted.

Remember, Boston dealt the FIFTH overall pick that year (Jeff Green). Plus they dealt away a guy many saw a lot of promise in with Al Jefferson (plus other pieces).

I don't think we have enough assets to make a move yet.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Let's just say that Bosh acted exactly as Carmelo did. He said he was going to leave to play in Miami. He wasn't going to sign anywhere else. It's Miami or nothing. What would we have gotten? About the same as what we got.

And that's looking past the fact that Carmelo's agent fucked up his last deal and put him in a corner where there were few options and he had to bullshit about not wanting to be a rental. Bosh would have been incredibly dumb to have limited his options going into free agency. He would have had to fire his agent like Carmelo did. He went into free agency after saying that he was going to exercise that right. So it's a stretch to ever see how the same situation occurs anyway.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:22 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Let's just say that Bosh acted exactly as Carmelo did. He said he was going to leave to play in Miami. He wasn't going to sign anywhere else. It's Miami or nothing. What would we have gotten? About the same as what we got.

And that's looking past the fact that Carmelo's agent fucked up his last deal and put him in a corner where there were few options and he had to bullshit about not wanting to be a rental. Bosh would have been incredibly dumb to have limited his options going into free agency. He would have had to fire his agent like Carmelo did. He went into free agency after saying that he was going to exercise that right. So it's a stretch to ever see how the same situation occurs anyway.
You're somewhat downplaying Colangelo's ability to create a multi-team possibility.... or at least he and his management team of course.... knowing that Bosh was absolutely leaving would have increased our take, if only marginally.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You're somewhat downplaying Colangelo's ability to create a multi-team possibility.... or at least he and his management team of course.... knowing that Bosh was absolutely leaving would have increased our take, if only marginally.
OK great. We get a marginally bigger take if Bosh's agent had fucked up badly, and put him in a Carmelo-type situation. It's not worth fretting over.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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You make it sound like it was all so easily arranged. There were a lot of circumstances that had to go right to allow these guys to come together.

No organization was screwed Ammo. Bosh and Lebron were under contract for seven years and they honored their contracts quite suitably. It's not the huge moral equation you're making it out to be, as much as it's understandable that you don't like it.

Give me a break about Carmelo's intentions. He wanted a big paycheque. Period. He needed a deal done before the trade deadline or he would lose out. If you're going to question people's ability to see the truth, you ought to look a little closer yourself.
I'm definitely seeing the truth. On the one hand, it sucks to see another supposed franchise player walk. On the other hand, I am not disliking it all that much that he left. But this franchise had better learn from it. If it looks like it's telling lies, it probably is, so get something for him and ship his ass out of town.

As for the notion that no one knew what was up and then one day, they all came together the day of the decision and said...."Hey, let's all play in Miami", that's laughable. I expect Stern to address this magical coincidence in the next CBA before more franchises get hijacked to feed the 4 or 5 superteams.

As for Carmelo, if he just wanted a big paycheque, he could have gone anywhere. He stated his intentions, like a man, and his former team is set up fine as a result.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:56 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm definitely seeing the truth. On the one hand, it sucks to see another supposed franchise player walk. On the other hand, I am not disliking it all that much that he left. But this franchise had better learn from it. If it looks like it's telling lies, it probably is, so get something for him and ship his ass out of town.

As for the notion that no one knew what was up and then one day, they all came together the day of the decision and said...."Hey, let's all play in Miami", that's laughable. I expect Stern to address this magical coincidence in the next CBA before more franchises get hijacked to feed the 4 or 5 superteams.

As for Carmelo, if he just wanted a big paycheque, he could have gone anywhere. He stated his intentions, like a man, and his former team is set up fine as a result.
C'mon now - you think that they could count on Miami being able to make it possible for them all to play together 100 percent. They had to keep their options open. We are talking about free agents that made it clear they were going to pursuit the open market. Bosh's ass could have been traded at any point. He wasn't stopping anyone from doing so. And nobody was stopping the Raptors from doing what Miami did. The problem is - and this is what the CBA needs to address - is that Toronto would not have landed multiple free agents in any case.

And please - what are you telling me about Carmelo? He knew he wanted to go to NY, but he also knew that he wasn't going to get paid unless he let the Nuggets know that he wanted to get signed there. All he did was fix the original fuckup that his agent made. And the end result for the Knicks is not so pretty. As much as Knicks fans are happy to have him, if they consider that they were trading away a ton of talent just so he could sign for more than they could have gotten him as a free agent, then that light gets dimmed a little.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:00 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Just goes to show there's no right way to handle this type of situation.
Swirsky said recently that you approach the player, try to work out an extension, and if no progress, trade the guy. Not foolproof, but safer.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:34 PM   #32 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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I've pretty much separated like or dislike for a player from what I think of performance and actions, that's why I don't call Bargnani a bitch anymore. I can honestly say that I objectively think they knew well beforehand and that is why Colangelo said plainly just after the all star break that something had changed and why Triano shows open disdain for Bosh (pretty rare and deliberate for him, no?). Only they know what transpired in their interactions, but beyond the smoking gun of everything else, their animosity speaks volumes. That does not happen by itself.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I used to be in an F1 racing pool. Yes I was enough of a freak to do something like that. In order to keep everyone in the pool from selecting Schumacher, they gave everyone only a limited bankroll whereby you could have Schumacher, but good luck with the rest of your team, you'd be almost out of money for other drivers.

Stern's a really smart dude. Surely he and his throbbing cranium team will come up with a formula to stop the madness. I'm not advocating a system whereby each team can only afford one star, but if you leave the amount any one player can sign for high, but have a lower hard cap, now guys have to ask themselves how much money they are willing to lose to team up.

In other words, Amare can go ahead and sign for 20 million, but if the hard cap is 48 million, or even a despicable $3 for every $1 luxury tax over a soft cap, they might be able to change things. But there are other formulas that could be used.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Colangelo got burned. He put all his hopes on the extra money he could offer. It didn't do the trick. Triano said that he does not like the friendly stuff before games, so I think you're reading an awful lot into what you think is disdain.

Bosh's actions were the actions of a free agent. He could have decided in 1992 that he wanted to team up with Lebron and Wade. It only mattered last July. They all had every right to choose where to play. There was simply nothing wrong done on anyone's part. And if Bosh had "been a man" and severely limited his options by stating he wanted to go to Miami, Toronto would have benefitted how?
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:43 PM   #34 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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See the Denver Nuggets. Carmelo did not owe them anything because he put in his time and played hard. He would have gotten well paid no matter what. He's not a part of the huge free agent class last year, so he'd be a big fish. And thinking he signed for a certain amount now means nothing if they broad-stroke 20% off all salaries in the new CBA.

Both sides won and he still got to go where he wanted. The only difference is loyalty. Everybody won because it was all above board, partnership, loyalty, not leaving them high and dry.

Two questions:

1. Why do you think he said at the outset, "I'm not Chris Bosh"?

2. If you have both Chris Bosh and Carmelo Anthony on a team and it's contract re-signing time, which one are you going to trust less with your franchise's future and go ahead and deal? The way I look at it, everything else is fine, his work ethic, stays out of trouble, etc. But would you trust him at whatever word he gives you to your face?

Last edited by Ammo; 02-22-2011 at 11:46 PM.
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