A summer of Defensive Training is order for DEMAR Derozen
Old 06-02-2013, 05:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
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A summer of Defensive Training is order for DEMAR Derozen

If there is one thing we've heard about this young "core" part of our team is that they're pretty close. I really feel like if this team wants to do something this year, as a team they need to start hanging out together starting in August and really start pushing eachother to become better defenders, running defensive drills. I'm talking working with trainers working on conditioning and lateral quickness, so they can maybe start keeping their opponents in front of them as well as learning to force players to where the help defense can be used. (Let's face it. In the NBA there is no one who can guard any elite player one on one. They can just slow them down.) I believe that Demar is the next biggest Enigma for me on the Raptors next to Andrea B. He's a freak athlete, who has the capability of using that to play tough defense he just has no pride in it. I hope he's getting a great look at star players who are making an impact for their teams during these playoffs, by playing tough man to man defense. I would love to hear from Demar that rather than spending hours of the gym bulking up and working on his 3 point shot. He spent hours in the gym doing calisthenics and working on his lateral quickness to become a lock down defender this year. (I'd even settle for rumors of him playing a lot of racket ball and tennis to work on that side to side reaction speed.) I think Demar would like to be a leader on this young team. He just needs someone to throw a bucket of water over his head and tell him it starts by being good a both ends of the court. Currently he may be the worse starting 2 guard in the league at guarding his own position. There's no reason this should be the case, he's way too quick of a guy to be left in the dust as much as he was the last 3 years. Common Derozen... you want to impress Toronto Fans? Take a page our of Amir Johnsons book and start playing some defense. (Gonna do another post after this one on how I think casey should impose the Raptors new defense for next year... if he's still around.)
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I agree that DD is under achieving on the defensive end. I personally don't think he is all that special with respect to all aspects of athleticism. He clearly has excellent ability to maintain good control while in the air and on fast breaks ... very strong.

His explosiveness on his first step on offense is quite ordinary ... and his lateral quickness seems to be below average, which makes his defensive capabilities below average. He can certainly improve his defense with drills, coaching, intensity, savvyness, ... but he isn't anything special on the quickness side.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Im really curious to see what Landry does this offseason, he has time to totally reconstruct his shot
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Im really curious to see what Landry does this offseason, he has time to totally reconstruct his shot
I think he'll be this seasons surprise, more like the Landry of his rookie season.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think he'll be this seasons surprise, more like the Landry of his rookie season.
agreed. we may already have our 3 pt shooter off the bench
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Fields outside shooting ability and confidence have decreased significantly in the past 2 seasons, and you guys think he's going to magically come back as a confident 3 point shooter? I'd bet good money you'll be saying the same thing next season after he has another dismal year.

This is a guy who averaged 0.3 3PA per game last year. He hit TWO, yes, TWO 3 point shots all season. He not only looked scared to take the outside shot, he AVOIDED it at all costs last season, often killing our spacing on the court by staying in the 15 foot range because he was afraid to be behind the arc and receive a pass for a wide open shot he knew he wasn't going to make.

Some of you Raptors fans seriously need your heads examined. There is absolutely no evidence that he'll come back a better outside shooter, let alone be a solid 3 point threat next year. The guy is a scrub, and for anybody to have confidence in him to be a solid, effective role player at this point is either delusional or a fanboy. Swingmen who cant shoot or handle the ball, and play average defence aren't hot commodities in todays NBA, especially ones who have 0 ability to make a shot outside of 5 feet. I'd bet that no one can name one player in todays NBA who is a SF who cant shoot an outside shot who gets consistent PT and is effective on the floor.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Fields outside shooting ability and confidence have decreased significantly in the past 2 seasons, and you guys think he's going to magically come back as a confident 3 point shooter? I'd bet good money you'll be saying the same thing next season after he has another dismal year.

This is a guy who averaged 0.3 3PA per game last year. He hit TWO, yes, TWO 3 point shots all season. He not only looked scared to take the outside shot, he AVOIDED it at all costs last season, often killing our spacing on the court by staying in the 15 foot range because he was afraid to be behind the arc and receive a pass for a wide open shot he knew he wasn't going to make.

Some of you Raptors fans seriously need your heads examined. There is absolutely no evidence that he'll come back a better outside shooter, let alone be a solid 3 point threat next year. The guy is a scrub, and for anybody to have confidence in him to be a solid, effective role player at this point is either delusional or a fanboy. Swingmen who cant shoot or handle the ball, and play average defence aren't hot commodities in todays NBA, especially ones who have 0 ability to make a shot outside of 5 feet. I'd bet that no one can name one player in todays NBA who is a SF who cant shoot an outside shot who gets consistent PT and is effective on the floor.
And we'll be riding your sorry ass for your negativity, when he proves you don't know jack.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Fields outside shooting ability and confidence have decreased significantly in the past 2 seasons, and you guys think he's going to magically come back as a confident 3 point shooter? I'd bet good money you'll be saying the same thing next season after he has another dismal year.

This is a guy who averaged 0.3 3PA per game last year. He hit TWO, yes, TWO 3 point shots all season. He not only looked scared to take the outside shot, he AVOIDED it at all costs last season, often killing our spacing on the court by staying in the 15 foot range because he was afraid to be behind the arc and receive a pass for a wide open shot he knew he wasn't going to make.

Some of you Raptors fans seriously need your heads examined. There is absolutely no evidence that he'll come back a better outside shooter, let alone be a solid 3 point threat next year. The guy is a scrub, and for anybody to have confidence in him to be a solid, effective role player at this point is either delusional or a fanboy. Swingmen who cant shoot or handle the ball, and play average defence aren't hot commodities in todays NBA, especially ones who have 0 ability to make a shot outside of 5 feet. I'd bet that no one can name one player in todays NBA who is a SF who cant shoot an outside shot who gets consistent PT and is effective on the floor.
his shot is broken, but other than that he really isn't that bad. He is a good defender, rebounds like a mad man, good off ball movement.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Fields outside shooting ability and confidence have decreased significantly in the past 2 seasons, and you guys think he's going to magically come back as a confident 3 point shooter? I'd bet good money you'll be saying the same thing next season after he has another dismal year.

This is a guy who averaged 0.3 3PA per game last year. He hit TWO, yes, TWO 3 point shots all season. He not only looked scared to take the outside shot, he AVOIDED it at all costs last season, often killing our spacing on the court by staying in the 15 foot range because he was afraid to be behind the arc and receive a pass for a wide open shot he knew he wasn't going to make.

Some of you Raptors fans seriously need your heads examined. There is absolutely no evidence that he'll come back a better outside shooter, let alone be a solid 3 point threat next year. The guy is a scrub, and for anybody to have confidence in him to be a solid, effective role player at this point is either delusional or a fanboy. Swingmen who cant shoot or handle the ball, and play average defence aren't hot commodities in todays NBA, especially ones who have 0 ability to make a shot outside of 5 feet. I'd bet that no one can name one player in todays NBA who is a SF who cant shoot an outside shot who gets consistent PT and is effective on the floor.
why do you post with such utter assuredness. you make it seem like your opinion is fact, when in reality, it isn't. the man had nerve surgery this year. he was affected by it before the surgery this year, and possibly even his second year in NY (where btw black hole melo was a very large reason for his drop in form and confidence). I'm not saying he will necessarily, 100 percent, come back a solid shooter like he was. but if he restructures his shot, and gets used to basically what is a new hand for himself, then yeah it's not hard to fathom he comes back a solid player. a player that can rebound, doesn't need the ball to be effective, makes excellent cuts, plays average to somewhat above average D, who CAN shoot? that's a solid player. aaaaand he's still young.


torap where you at?
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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His shooting problems are more mental than physical - where is the confidence going to come from?
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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His shooting problems are more mental than physical - where is the confidence going to come from?
I don't believe this is the case at all from everything I read.

I don't know what will fix DD defense but agree he has to put improving as the 2nd improvement, right behind 3 point shot.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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And we'll be riding your sorry ass for your negativity, when he proves you don't know jack.
We've seen countless players come through Toronto and underperform, or just plain suck. I'm used to it, I see that you're not and you choose to go with blind optomism without anything to support your opinion. That's your perogative. His last 2 seasons, as well as his form and tentativeness make me believe he'll continue to play terribly offensively.

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why do you post with such utter assuredness. you make it seem like your opinion is fact, when in reality, it isn't. the man had nerve surgery this year. he was affected by it before the surgery this year, and possibly even his second year in NY (where btw black hole melo was a very large reason for his drop in form and confidence).
So year 2, it was black hole Melo, and year 3 it was nerve issues, even though when he came back, he still sucked. I wonder what next year is going to be?

Quote:
I'm not saying he will necessarily, 100 percent, come back a solid shooter like he was. but if he restructures his shot, and gets used to basically what is a new hand for himself, then yeah it's not hard to fathom he comes back a solid player. a player that can rebound, doesn't need the ball to be effective, makes excellent cuts, plays average to somewhat above average D, who CAN shoot? that's a solid player. aaaaand he's still young.


torap where you at?
I can't base my opinion on ifs anymore as a Raptors fan. I've seen him play enough games all 3 seasons to come to the conclusion that his confidence is completely shot and it's highly unlikely he'll regain his shot to a point where it's consistent in game(if he can even get back to the point where he's confident enough in even taking an open shot). It's not only his shot though. He doesn't cut as hard to the basket off of the ball, he doesn't attempt to get on the boards as much on both sides of the ball. He's basically a scared player out there. If he's essentially only going to play average to good defence, and get a few boards while he's out there, then he may as well get his name changed to Dominic Mcguire.

He's got to be one of the worst players in the past 10-15 years that has ever been given over 7 million dollars per season.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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We've seen countless players come through Toronto and underperform, or just plain suck. I'm used to it, I see that you're not and you choose to go with blind optomism without anything to support your opinion. That's your perogative. His last 2 seasons, as well as his form and tentativeness make me believe he'll continue to play terribly offensively.


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So year 2, it was black hole Melo, and year 3 it was nerve issues, even though when he came back, he still sucked. I wonder what next year is going to be?
hahahaha. ok bud. you obviously have no goddamn clue what you're talking about. how you got the title "specialist" I will never know. when you have nerve surgery, your whole feel for your hand changes. google it. players coming back from a broken finger have a grace period of adjusting again because when you can't shoot the same as you did for a month (normally longer), it takes time adjusting. now multiply that by a whole lot, and you have the results of a nerve surgery. it's not like you come back and you're magically the same player you were before the problem.it takes time, practice, and a lot of repition to get the muscle memory back.

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I can't base my opinion on ifs anymore as a Raptors fan. I've seen him play enough games all 3 seasons to come to the conclusion that his confidence is completely shot and it's highly unlikely he'll regain his shot to a point where it's consistent in game(if he can even get back to the point where he's confident enough in even taking an open shot). It's not only his shot though. He doesn't cut as hard to the basket off of the ball, he doesn't attempt to get on the boards as much on both sides of the ball. He's basically a scared player out there. If he's essentially only going to play average to good defence, and get a few boards while he's out there, then he may as well get his name changed to Dominic Mcguire.
confidence can come back. especially once his hand is working again. people come back from acl tears and regain confidence and trust in their own body once again. this should be no different. these are professional athletes with top physiotherapists and psycologists at their disposal

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He's got to be one of the worst players in the past 10-15 years that has ever been given over 7 million dollars per season.
good thing he wasn't then.

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Old 06-03-2013, 12:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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With a head of steam Demar can jump very high. That's about the extent of his "freak" athleticism imo. He doesn't explode East to West - or North to South as evidenced by his poor first step. And that kind of lateral quickness is crucial to becoming an above average perimeter defender. But if Demar can work on his awareness and positioning, especially on his close outs, he can at least be average. That's all I'm hoping for.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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good thing he wasn't then.
Sorry Mr Technical, let me be more specific:

$5,000,000 $5,225,000 $8,500,00

He's one of the worst value for your money players of the past 15 years. Satisfied?

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hahahaha. ok bud. you obviously have no goddamn clue what you're talking about. how you got the title "specialist" I will never know. when you have nerve surgery, your whole feel for your hand changes. google it. players coming back from a broken finger have a grace period of adjusting again because when you can't shoot the same as you did for a month (normally longer), it takes time adjusting. now multiply that by a whole lot, and you have the results of a nerve surgery. it's not like you come back and you're magically the same player you were before the problem.it takes time, practice, and a lot of repition to get the muscle memory back.



confidence can come back. especially once his hand is working again. people come back from acl tears and regain confidence and trust in their own body once again. this should be no different. these are professional athletes with top physiotherapists and psycologists at their disposal
So the year before, it was Carmelos fault he sucked, despite the Knicks being one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the NBA this season due to all of the attention Carmelo gets.

And this year, it was everything to do with his nerves, despite you not knowing the extent of the injury, and how fast it even healed, if it was even that serious.

So next year, he should be healthy and back to being a decent role player like his first season yes?

Lets make this simple since you're so confident in Landry Fields ability, and his confidence returning for who knows what reason: Lets bet on it.

Sig bet, avatar bet, you name it. If Landry Fields shoots over 35% on at least 150 3pta, you win, and if he shoots under 35% or doesn't shoot 150 3PTA(he took over 200 3PTA in his rookie year), I win.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Sorry Mr Technical, let me be more specific:

$5,000,000 $5,225,000 $8,500,00

He's one of the worst value for your money players of the past 15 years. Satisfied?



So the year before, it was Carmelos fault he sucked, despite the Knicks being one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the NBA this season due to all of the attention Carmelo gets.

And this year, it was everything to do with his nerves, despite you not knowing the extent of the injury, and how fast it even healed, if it was even that serious.

So next year, he should be healthy and back to being a decent role player like his first season yes?

Lets make this simple since you're so confident in Landry Fields ability, and his confidence returning for who knows what reason: Lets bet on it.

Sig bet, avatar bet, you name it. If Landry Fields shoots over 35% on at least 150 3pta, you win, and if he shoots under 35% or doesn't shoot 150 3PTA(he took over 200 3PTA in his rookie year), I win.
i'm not going to make that bet. it's ridiculous, and I wouldn't risk changing my awesome soccer avatar. He could end up not being as good. I'm just saying he could also end up being as good as his rookie year. i'm just not as sure as you are that his shooting will be godawful like this year.

as for the salary, that's what NY would have paid if they matched. we pay him 6.25 or something similar annually. for 3 years.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:13 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm disappointed. After your first comment:

Quote:
agreed. we may already have our 3 pt shooter off the bench
And your other ones backing him, making it seem that it's all but sure he'll return to his rookie form, and yet you're not confident enough that he'll shoot an average 35% from the 3 pt line? What was the point in arguing then?

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as for the salary, that's what NY would have paid if they matched. we pay him 6.25 or something similar annually. for 3 years.
Yes, it's what they would have paid if they matched. But they didn't. You know why? Because they didn't have a complete imbecile running their team like we did. No team would have given Fields over 3 million per season, let alone 7 million, especially after the let down season he had. And if you look at what guys like Mayo and Smith got, and compare it to their production vs Fields, it's even more sickening how bad that contract was.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm disappointed. After your first comment:



And your other ones backing him, making it seem that it's all but sure he'll return to his rookie form, and yet you're not confident enough that he'll shoot an average 35% from the 3 pt line? What was the point in arguing then?



Yes, it's what they would have paid if they matched. But they didn't. You know why? Because they didn't have a complete imbecile running their team like we did. No team would have given Fields over 3 million per season, let alone 7 million, especially after the let down season he had. And if you look at what guys like Mayo and Smith got, and compare it to their production vs Fields, it's even more sickening how bad that contract was.
reading comprehension skills: we MAY already have our 3 pt shooter

also: 6.25 mil does not equal to 7. unless you round up no matter what, in which case it's just plain wierd.

yes he's overpaid. yes he may not find the form again. but that is NOT a sure thing
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:46 AM   #19 (permalink)
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With a head of steam Demar can jump very high. That's about the extent of his "freak" athleticism imo. He doesn't explode East to West - or North to South as evidenced by his poor first step. And that kind of lateral quickness is crucial to becoming an above average perimeter defender. But if Demar can work on his awareness and positioning, especially on his close outs, he can at least be average. That's all I'm hoping for.
Well said ...
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Sorry Mr Technical, let me be more specific:

$5,000,000 $5,225,000 $8,500,00
You know...this is the straw that broke the camels back...probabaly the Mr. Technical thing that I agree with so much...the thing that pisses me most off about this forum is when people shithawk other peoples posts looking for something miniscule that is partly wrong, or maybe a quick assumption, and then someone goes to town on things wirtten quickly when everyone knows exactly what the guy meant. This is only an example... but BDL says 7 mil. Everyone gets that it's +-7 except for one guy, so then BDL has to write this, and then it just goes on and derails thread after thread. To have to go back and break it down like this and argue about minutae is so fucking irritating to do and read. And its not this thread only, its nearly every one. Can we just stop shithawking everything that's written please?
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