A summer of Defensive Training is order for DEMAR Derozen - Page 2
Old 06-03-2013, 01:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You know...this is the straw that broke the camels back...probabaly the Mr. Technical thing that I agree with so much...the thing that pisses me most off about this forum is when people shithawk other peoples posts looking for something miniscule that is partly wrong, or maybe a quick assumption, and then someone goes to town on things wirtten quickly when everyone knows exactly what the guy meant. This is only an example... but BDL says 7 mil. Everyone gets that it's +-7 except for one guy, so then BDL has to write this, and then it just goes on and derails thread after thread. To have to go back and break it down like this and argue about minutae is so fucking irritating to do and read. And its not this thread only, its nearly every one. Can we just stop shithawking everything that's written please?
did you even read my posts? our main argument was on his 3 pt shooting, and shooting in general really. it's like you skipped half the posts and chose to make a ridiculous attack
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Sig bet, avatar bet, you name it. If Landry Fields shoots over 35% on at least 150 3pta, you win, and if he shoots under 35% or doesn't shoot 150 3PTA(he took over 200 3PTA in his rookie year), I win.
I like to have fun, I'll take that as I strongly believe that LF will return with a better looking shot next season. LF played 31mpg in his rookie season as he was a starter and 20 mpg with TO as he comes off the bench. LF took 219 x 3 pointers in 2010/11 making .393 of them. Confidence doesn't hurt a player like that to go from .393 to .256 to .143 - it's apparent that the nerve injury did not hurt but definitely started altering his shot: LF's play in his rookie season and prior in college, shows that he did not 'just' have a great rookie season. Let's say 20 mpg as a back-up, say that would be something like 135 shots at 35%. Slightly lower pace but then again, it's starter minutes vs bench minutes.

Just to note: IF LF can not shoot over 35% on 3's then the team can trade him the following year as an expiring. I'll gamble on LF for 1 year Not a bad contract overall - it was a gamble and can be short lived.

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Old 06-03-2013, 08:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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did you even read my posts? our main argument was on his 3 pt shooting, and shooting in general really. it's like you skipped half the posts and chose to make a ridiculous attack
Sorry. It wasn't directed just at you, like I said more an overall comment. But yes I read your post and the arguments about exact numbers for 4 more.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:35 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I like to have fun, I'll take that as I strongly believe that LF will return with a better looking shot next season. LF played 31mpg in his rookie season as he was a starter and 20 mpg with TO as he comes off the bench. LF took 219 x 3 pointers in 2010/11 making .393 of them. Confidence doesn't hurt a player like that to go from .393 to .256 to .143 - it's apparent that the nerve injury did not hurt but definitely started altering his shot: LF's play in his rookie season and prior in college, shows that he did not 'just' have a great rookie season. Let's say 20 mpg as a back-up, say that would be something like 135 shots at 35%. Slightly lower pace but then again, it's starter minutes vs bench minutes.

Just to note: IF LF can not shoot over 35% on 3's then the team can trade him the following year as an expiring. I'll gamble on LF for 1 year Not a bad contract overall - it was a gamble and can be short lived.
Avatar or sig bet, it's up to you. I'd like to see him regain his confidence, but 2 years straight of the same ugly shot and 0 confidence doesn't make me optomistic for him or you. I think he's going to be up there with the worst contracts we've ever given out when it's all said and done, and I guess in a way its good hes on the team for the near inevitable tank next season.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Avatar or sig bet, it's up to you. I'd like to see him regain his confidence, but 2 years straight of the same ugly shot and 0 confidence doesn't make me optomistic for him or you. I think he's going to be up there with the worst contracts we've ever given out when it's all said and done, and I guess in a way its good hes on the team for the near inevitable tank next season.

LOL, well if his shot stays at .143 then yes, this is the year to have him. I'm not sure if its the worst contract but it certainly is up there - if the truth is he has no shot anymore.

OK, I've never done an avatar bet and it sounds like fun.....what are the parameters?
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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LOL, well if his shot stays at .143 then yes, this is the year to have him. I'm not sure if its the worst contract but it certainly is up there - if the truth is he has no shot anymore.

OK, I've never done an avatar bet and it sounds like fun.....what are the parameters?
If I lose the bet, you get to make or pick any avatar you want me to put on, and the same the other way for a certain amount of time.

In terms of the bet:

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If Landry Fields shoots over 35% on at least 150 3pta, you win, and if he shoots under 35% or doesn't shoot 150 3PTA(he took over 200 3PTA in his rookie year), I win.
I think if he plays less than 70 games, then the bet should be void. But if he plays over 70, 150 3PTA should be easily reached if he regains his touch, and again, has to shoot over 35%. So just to reitterate, if he doesnt take 150 3's in more than 70 GP, you lose the bet no matter what.

You can choose the amount of months the avatar has to stay on.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:31 AM   #27 (permalink)
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If I lose the bet, you get to make or pick any avatar you want me to put on, and the same the other way for a certain amount of time.

In terms of the bet:



I think if he plays less than 70 games, then the bet should be void. But if he plays over 70, 150 3PTA should be easily reached if he regains his touch, and again, has to shoot over 35%. So just to reitterate, if he doesnt take 150 3's in more than 70 GP, you lose the bet no matter what.

You can choose the amount of months the avatar has to stay on.
LF's shot attempts wouldn't have anything to do with his ability to hit the shot - minutes, off the bench play, competition, etc have more to do with attempts than LF's ability to hit them - and a nice way to hedge the bet

I would think a simple 35% over the course of a season (min 70+ games) will show that LF's shot has returned or not and validate the debate either way.

I would think the avatar bet would be for a month - it's just for fun really, nothing serious.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:56 AM   #28 (permalink)
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LF's shot attempts wouldn't have anything to do with his ability to hit the shot - minutes, off the bench play, competition, etc have more to do with attempts than LF's ability to hit them - and a nice way to hedge the bet
But in Landry's case - the defense will play him the same way they played him this year, and the same way they play Reggie Evans.

He will have all the wide open threes he wants at the start of the season. You and thrills will know pretty early in the season whether or not he is mentally capable of being a good shooter. I think nothing short of Jeremy Lin will help him out.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #29 (permalink)
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LF's shot attempts wouldn't have anything to do with his ability to hit the shot - minutes, off the bench play, competition, etc have more to do with attempts than LF's ability to hit them - and a nice way to hedge the bet

I would think a simple 35% over the course of a season (min 70+ games) will show that LF's shot has returned or not and validate the debate either way.

I would think the avatar bet would be for a month - it's just for fun really, nothing serious.
Alright thats fine. I think if he only ended up taking 20 3's next year he'd still only make 1 anyway. There should be no GP restriction if we're not restricting the 3PTA though no?
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Alright thats fine. I think if he only ended up taking 20 3's next year he'd still only make 1 anyway. There should be no GP restriction if we're not restricting the 3PTA though no?
Makes sense. Average for the season, =/<.349 you win, =/>.350 I win. bjjs is right, we'll know fairly early how his season will go and I'll spend the rest of the season sweating it out
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:48 AM   #31 (permalink)
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It's funny how this became a LF thread instead of a DD thread. I guess we all recognize how poor DD is on the defensive end
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
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why do you post with such utter assuredness. you make it seem like your opinion is fact, when in reality, it isn't. the man had nerve surgery this year. he was affected by it before the surgery this year, and possibly even his second year in NY (where btw black hole melo was a very large reason for his drop in form and confidence). I'm not saying he will necessarily, 100 percent, come back a solid shooter like he was. but if he restructures his shot, and gets used to basically what is a new hand for himself, then yeah it's not hard to fathom he comes back a solid player. a player that can rebound, doesn't need the ball to be effective, makes excellent cuts, plays average to somewhat above average D, who CAN shoot? that's a solid player. aaaaand he's still young.


torap where you at?
I've lost interest in these arguments. Sorry.

Thrills is usually bang on when it comes to all things bball but he has a serious hate on for Fields for some reason. For Landry's sake I hope that he puts the injury behind him and gets his shot back.... because he's far too good of a player to struggle the way that he has offensively.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:31 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I've lost interest in these arguments. Sorry.

Thrills is usually bang on when it comes to all things bball but he has a serious hate on for Fields for some reason. For Landry's sake I hope that he puts the injury behind him and gets his shot back.... because he's far too good of a player to struggle the way that he has offensively.
It's a combination of things for me with regard to Fields.

1. As an organization, continuing to make the same stupid mistake of overpaying and giving way too many years to average to below average swingmen, who aren't going to be starters for your team, and have a high risk of underachieving since they're not playing off of a star player(s). See Linas Kleiza, Jason Kapono, Hedo Turkoglu.

2. Not only overpaying, but paying WAY over market value for a player like Fields, who likely wouldn't have gotten more than 2 years, 6 million from any other team in the NBA. The fact that he gave him this horrid contract to get a 39 year old PG makes it even worse.

3. Knowing that he'll never come close to living up to his contract, because he isn't capable of playing over 20-25 MPG while still being effective on the floor.

4. We gave him a contract after he SERIOUSLY regressed in every facet of the game.

5. His best case scenario is what he did in his rookie season IMO, I dont see him getting better than that because of his limitations as a player. And even then, he isnt worth over 5 million.

6. We were, and likely going to continue to be, put in a situation where he's gifted minutes despite his poor play to try to justify his contract, or now worse, try to up his value for a trade even though he should be sitting on the bench because he's not producing. That's what really irks me the most. And we've seen it too many times over the years. It's the Bargnani effect.

Right now he's an overpaid scrub who only got his contract because of our inept GM. So it's not so much my hate for Landry himself, it's my hate for our previous GM, and the situation he put us in. It's not Landrys fault he's now forced into minutes despite his suckage, but his suckage just adds on to point 6 in my hatred for him.

Yes, he can improve to a point where he's a decent role player off the bench for us. But I see a broken player right now who will likely be out of the league within 5 years if he doesn't get his confidence back. In todays NBA where spacing is so important, you can't have a SF who can't shoot play 15+ mpg for you without seriously damaging your offensive efficiency as a team. I don't think that's debatable.
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:47 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I've lost interest in these arguments. Sorry.

Thrills is usually bang on when it comes to all things bball but he has a serious hate on for Fields for some reason. For Landry's sake I hope that he puts the injury behind him and gets his shot back.... because he's far too good of a player to struggle the way that he has offensively.
True that - personally I don't see LF as the 'scrub' BDL does. As far as too good a player to struggle? I agree totally, he has a great feel for the game and his defense is not to shabby. I'm hoping (and now banking on) that LF can get back to where he was at the end of his rookie season.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:19 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Right now he's an overpaid scrub who only got his contract because of our inept GM. So it's not so much my hate for Landry himself, it's my hate for our previous GM, and the situation he put us in. It's not Landrys fault he's now forced into minutes despite his suckage, but his suckage just adds on to point 6 in my hatred for him.

Yes, he can improve to a point where he's a decent role player off the bench for us. But I see a broken player right now who will likely be out of the league within 5 years if he doesn't get his confidence back. In todays NBA where spacing is so important, you can't have a SF who can't shoot play 15+ mpg for you without seriously damaging your offensive efficiency as a team. I don't think that's debatable.
Still not sure why you continue to slam Fields for his play his last year in NYK. That team was dysfunctional as soon as Melo came back and started dominating the ball. AND he was playing with an injury that was only diagnosed AFTER we gave him that contract! Is it any wonder his shot has been off when he had nerve damage(?) to his elbow?

And in spite of that he was STILL one of the better rebounding guards in the league when he got starter's minutes... and cut beautifully off the ball. He's an unselfish player who doesn't need the ball 15-20 times a game to contribute (unlike Bargs). THAT's why he's so valuable. Shit, you put his brain in Rudy's body and you'd have a hell of a player IMO.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:26 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Still not sure why you continue to slam Fields for his play his last year in NYK. That team was dysfunctional as soon as Melo came back and started dominating the ball. AND he was playing with an injury that was only diagnosed AFTER we gave him that contract! Is it any wonder his shot has been off when he had nerve damage(?) to his elbow?

And in spite of that he was STILL one of the better rebounding guards in the league when he got starter's minutes... and cut beautifully off the ball. He's an unselfish player who doesn't need the ball 15-20 times a game to contribute (unlike Bargs). THAT's why he's so valuable. Shit, you put his brain in Rudy's body and you'd have a hell of a player IMO.
agree with everything you just said. just like to add that if we had a coach who didn't tell rudy to iso 70 percent of the offensive plays then rudy wouldn't seem so dumb either



karl where ya at???
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:33 PM   #37 (permalink)
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how many minutes do you give fields a game???
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:52 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Still not sure why you continue to slam Fields for his play his last year in NYK. That team was dysfunctional as soon as Melo came back and started dominating the ball. AND he was playing with an injury that was only diagnosed AFTER we gave him that contract! Is it any wonder his shot has been off when he had nerve damage(?) to his elbow?

And in spite of that he was STILL one of the better rebounding guards in the league when he got starter's minutes... and cut beautifully off the ball. He's an unselfish player who doesn't need the ball 15-20 times a game to contribute (unlike Bargs). THAT's why he's so valuable. Shit, you put his brain in Rudy's body and you'd have a hell of a player IMO.
How can you say that the attributes you mentioned make him 'so valuable' when he hasn't contributed to winning almost at all the last 2 seasons? And I dont think you can blame his injury exclusively for his struggles the past 2 seasons. It's nice that he rebounds the ball well, but the 'if given starters minutes' part just makes me squirm because he gives us absolutely nothing in the halfcourt, or last year specifically, in transition.

Can we agree that next year is a make or break year for him? He has no excuses next season.

I honestly cant think of one backup sg/sf currently playing in the NBA right now who plays a lot of minutes despite not being able to shoot at all. He's just not going to be effective out there unless he regains his shot.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:13 PM   #39 (permalink)
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How can you say that the attributes you mentioned make him 'so valuable' when he hasn't contributed to winning almost at all the last 2 seasons? And I dont think you can blame his injury exclusively for his struggles the past 2 seasons. It's nice that he rebounds the ball well, but the 'if given starters minutes' part just makes me squirm because he gives us absolutely nothing in the halfcourt, or last year specifically, in transition.

Can we agree that next year is a make or break year for him? He has no excuses next season.

I honestly cant think of one backup sg/sf currently playing in the NBA right now who plays a lot of minutes despite not being able to shoot at all. He's just not going to be effective out there unless he regains his shot.
i agree. the way he played last year you can't give him more than 18 mpg and at 18 mpg i don't think he can be as effective as his contract would warrant. If he "regains" his shot (personally i never thought he was a great shooter to begin with) he may help, either way he is WAY OVERPAID, imo
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:13 AM   #40 (permalink)
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How can you say that the attributes you mentioned make him 'so valuable' when he hasn't contributed to winning almost at all the last 2 seasons? And I dont think you can blame his injury exclusively for his struggles the past 2 seasons. It's nice that he rebounds the ball well, but the 'if given starters minutes' part just makes me squirm because he gives us absolutely nothing in the halfcourt, or last year specifically, in transition.

Can we agree that next year is a make or break year for him? He has no excuses next season.

I honestly cant think of one backup sg/sf currently playing in the NBA right now who plays a lot of minutes despite not being able to shoot at all. He's just not going to be effective out there unless he regains his shot.
I'll agree with that.... but I just hope to God that he's given a chance and put in a position to succeed. Because Lord knows we've thrown away player after player only to have them turn into solid guys for other teams.
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