Stein: Raptors in the running for PG Eric Bledsoe - Page 4
Old 06-29-2013, 09:45 PM   #61 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,816
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
This is what we want... They may not be good now, but these are two players waiting for a chance to play major minutes and develop. While they do that, we can lose and obtain a higher pick. Simple.
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:46 PM   #62 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,660
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
DeRozan, Lowry and 2015 1st for Rondo?

Trade Bargnani for 2 future 2nd picks from charlotte

Rondo
Ross
Gay
Fields
JV

Small ball? hhaha:cookie: (being facetious)

Atleast somebody has the right idea. If we're giving up DD for a PG we should be aiming high.

You don't trade your starting sg for a backup pg.

And Bledsoe is a back up pg, and I question any raptor fan who thinks otherwise since they clearly missed the clippers/raptors game where the Raps dared Bledsoe to make a wide open 15 footer. The short story is he couldn't. He was a 6 foot Reggie Evans bringing the ball up the court. The Clips were incompetent with him starting with something like a 1-5 record.

But maybe he'll be great, but the point is, bledsoe as a starting pg is a far bigger unknown then what we already have with Demar as a sg. As it sits now we would lose big on a demar/bledsoe 1for1.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:48 PM   #63 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
His contract is huge... 10m annually for Corey Maggette is not what we want. Are people writing off Ross already?

With Bledsoe we can move Lowry for another big asset, lose a ton more games this year, and save a lot of cash instead of catching the 8th seed. It's wonderful.
9.5mil for Derozan is not that bad at all imo. He's an 8-9mil player in today's NBA so 9.5mil/yr is fine. As for Ross, I haven't given up on him at all, but that starting lineup would be ugly, Bledsoe has a shit jumper.


BTW, Maggette last contract was around 11mil/yr
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:49 PM   #64 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
This is what we want... They may not be good now, but these are two players waiting for a chance to play major minutes and develop. While they do that, we can lose and obtain a higher pick. Simple.
I think people thinking we're going this route or tanking are delusional. Just don't see it happening.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:49 PM   #65 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,375
Representing:
Default

^yeah, I remember that, because it was Rudy's first game with the team. Bledsoe started for the Clippers and we crushed them by over 20.
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:49 PM   #66 (permalink)
the poster formally known as Quinn

Team Captain
 
Obi-Wan Quinnobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 562
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
This is what we want... They may not be good now, but these are two players waiting for a chance to play major minutes and develop. While they do that, we can lose and obtain a higher pick. Simple.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or not ?
Obi-Wan Quinnobi is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:53 PM   #67 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,816
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
I'm not sure if you're trolling or not ?
what makes you think I am trolling?

If you really want the 8th seed that bad then... I don't know what to say.
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:56 PM   #68 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,816
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I think people thinking we're going this route or tanking are delusional. Just don't see it happening.
Why would someone be delusional for wanting to obtain a high pick in a great draft?
Wiggins, Parker, Smart, Randle and a ton of good talents are in this draft. Missing out because you want to get swept by the Heat is just silly.
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 09:57 PM   #69 (permalink)
grabbin boards, droppin dimes, and lightin them up

Senior Member
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,258
Representing:
Default

In games where Bledsoe played 25+ last season he averaged:

13.7 ppg 5.0 apg 4.3 rpg 2.4 spg 1.18 bpg 2.1 TO 5.0 FGM 11.8 FGA

Those are decent stats. Only 16 game sample though.

Did the math from this source
Alex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 10:01 PM   #70 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
Why would someone be delusional for wanting to obtain a high pick in a great draft?
Wiggins, Parker, Smart, Randle and a ton of good talents are in this draft. Missing out because you want to get swept by the Heat is just silly.
Not delusional to want that. Thinking it'll happen might be another thing altogether. Then again, wtf knows i'm probably wrong and we're blowing up this team. We just don't know what's going to happen.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 10:03 PM   #71 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,375
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
I'm not sure if you're trolling or not ?
Kirby's been dropping a serious dose of passive aggressiveness on some of us, talking about how keeping the team together is "moronic" and only "ignorant" people like the roster. So I'm having a hard time being super polite.

I'm not going to insult him directly, but I can play the passive aggressive game, too. But, I will point out that, last year, when the team was even worse in a basketball sense (not financial flexibility, actual basketball), he was riding the nutsack more than any of us and picking the Raps to be a top 4-6 team. Now that we're arguably better bastketball wise, even just by JV's improvement alone (his late season #s were dope), suddenly Kirby calls the team shit and says it should be blown up. And that aside from how horribly wrong he was about the Knicks last year, after he insisted on arguing with 4 of us at length about their roster. I'm never letting that one go, because it was just so fucking stupid. He's also the guy who, when put in charge of the Cavs, traded away Dion Waiters and Tyler Zeller (efficient contracts) for Danny Granger's bloated expiring contract. Then, when asked about Granger's potential knee problems, said something like "it doesn't matter he is expiring". He essentially just gave away a lotto pick, and claimed he "sucked" (same thing he is saying about Derozan), even though the Waiters is 21 and actually played some stretches of decent ball.

I think the Raptors at a crossroads. I think there are good arguments for doing a bunch of different things, at least in theory. Some of the stuff Dan has suggested for rebuilding makes sense, although it might not be practical for UM to pull off so quickly.

But Kirby is one poster I do not take seriously. He has no clue what he is talking about. Give a broken clock enough time, it will be right. It doesn't mean you pay attention to the broken clock.

Edit - oh, well, I think somebody might consider that an insult. I guess I'm no good at being passive aggressive.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 06-29-2013 at 10:08 PM.
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 10:06 PM   #72 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,816
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
Kirby's been dropping a serious dose of passive aggressiveness on some of us, talking about how keeping the team together is "moronic" and only "ignorant" people like the roster. So I'm having a hard time being super polite.

I'm not going to insult him directly, but I can play the passive aggressive game, too. But, I will point out that, last year, when the team was even worse in a basketball sense (not financial flexibility, actual basketball), he was riding the nutsack more than any of us and picking the Raps to be a top 4-6 team. Now that we're arguably better bastketball wise, even just by JV's improvement alone (his late season #s were dope), suddenly Kirby calls the team shit and says it should be blown up. And that aside from how horribly wrong he was about the Knicks last year, after he insisted on arguing with 4 of us at length about their roster. I'm never letting that one go, because it was just so fucking stupid. He's also the guy who, when put in charge of the Cavs, traded away Dion Waiters and Tyler Zeller (efficient contracts) for Danny Granger's bloated expiring contract. Then, when asked about Granger's potential knee problems, said something like "it doesn't matter he is expiring". He essentially just gave away a lotto pick, and claimed he "sucked" (same thing he is saying about Derozan), even though the Waiters is 21 and actually played some stretches of decent ball.

I think the Raptors at a crossroads. I think there are good arguments for doing a bunch of different things, at least in theory. Some of the stuff Dan has suggested for rebuilding makes sense, although it might not be practical for UM to pull off so quickly.

But Kirby is one poster I do not take seriously. He has no clue what he is talking about.
hehe.
My opinions are just as bold as many here.

go figure Fields would suck and Lowry wouldn't play the way he did in Houston. throw in Bargnani being completely useless and suddenly it goes 180.
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 10:10 PM   #73 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,375
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
hehe.
My opinions are just as bold as many here.

go figure Fields would suck and Lowry wouldn't play the way he did in Houston. throw in Bargnani being completely useless and suddenly it goes 180.
I have no problem with bold opinions. You can be bold without being passive aggressive so much. A little I can understand. But every second post? I get annoyed when you bring out the worst in me. I prefer to be a nicer dude, but I have low tolerance for the passive aggresive b.s., and that's why I sometimes become a dick.
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 10:10 PM   #74 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,816
Representing:
Default

My main point has been stated many times. With a new GM, we are looking for championship or bust. There is no way we get there with what we have now, and it just so happens that a golden ticket to give us more chance than it would to stay the course is in next year's draft. Why not make a move that makes sense to go towards that draft route and take a chance? Just because I'm not spewing all these stats and history lessons doesn't mean I am completely clueless.

This team will not improve via transactions, we have no room to come out with a net-positive in talent since most our assets are within the starting lineup. How does this make me a troll or whatever?
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 10:10 PM   #75 (permalink)
baking the cookies of discontent.

Corner 3
 
finstock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,113
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
Atleast somebody has the right idea. If we're giving up DD for a PG we should be aiming high.

You don't trade your starting sg for a backup pg.

And Bledsoe is a back up pg, and I question any raptor fan who thinks otherwise since they clearly missed the clippers/raptors game where the Raps dared Bledsoe to make a wide open 15 footer. The short story is he couldn't. He was a 6 foot Reggie Evans bringing the ball up the court. The Clips were incompetent with him starting with something like a 1-5 record.

But maybe he'll be great, but the point is, bledsoe as a starting pg is a far bigger unknown then what we already have with Demar as a sg. As it sits now we would lose big on a demar/bledsoe 1for1.
Derozan has never been challenged for his role and Bledsoe plays behind one the best PGs of all time. Not exactly comparable. That would be like faulting Derozan because he couldn't oust a prime D-Wade for a starter's role.

Exactly! We know what Derozan is as a starter. A SG that doesn't shoot well. He can score some, but routinely gives up just as much, if not more, on the other end.
finstock is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 10:11 PM   #76 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,816
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
I have no problem with bold opinions. You can be bold without being passive aggressive so much. A little I can understand. But every second post? I get annoyed when you bring out the worst in me. I prefer to be a nicer dude, but I have low tolerance for the passive aggresive b.s., and that's why I sometimes become a dick.
fair enough. one thing triggers the other though. I read enough bad posts on this forum for me to just get angry and get at them.
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 11:17 PM   #77 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,207
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
stupid. if that was all he could do he wouldn't be averaging 18 ppg

if we make a bled for DD straight swap we lose, big, and DD becomes huge in 2 years or so, and MU gets fired
No it's not stupid actually, maybe a little simplified but he practically only contributes on one side of the court and isn't a difference maker on the glass. He's a pure scorer who's been the first option for a time post Bargs/pre-RG and been the 2nd option with RG here. KL hasn't been shooting as much as the season went on. So, it's not that surprising that he gets that much ppg. Statistically it's already been proven by DanH on another board that his midrange game is mediocre-to average. He's made his career out of being a high draft pick and using his calling card-getting to the rim. All his improvements have been ridiculously gradual. Besides getting those FTs he does nothing out of the ordinary, either mediocre - to average or slightly above average. He's the weak-link in the starting lineup defensively. He's been in the nba for 4 seasons and he hasn't reached the 30 % from 3 mark yet. His ballhandling is still pretty subpar. His rebounding is average. His so called athleticism is ridiculously hyped up. He's flatfooted. His apg has increased but once again isn't anything special. Hell, even on playoff teams where do you play him. Most teams (especially playoff teams) require their wings off the bench (and starting) to be a defensive stopper or shooting specialist (or both). If not in a rare case a SF can for example be a good all around player or a point forward like Hedo in his prime or maybe Boris Diaw - a versatile player who can do a bit of everything. So, does DD fit any of these things - can he take on large portions of ballhandling responsibility like a point forward or a SG who can take some pg responsibility? Can he shoot the 3 reliably? Can he be a defensive stopper and handle that role? Can he do a combination of any of the above? You always point to his stats, you know, Ben Gordon put in some similar 18-21 ppg, 3-4 apg/3 rpg type seasons. You're so sure of how good he is or how good he'll become. I recall you were also so sure of how good Bargs was. Try being a bit objective or being more realistic about Raptors players.

I actually like DD but he leaves a lot to be desired. I hope DD becomes an average to good defender and a reliable 3 pt shooter. There is still time but he has a lot of work to do. DD benefits from being in an era where the SG position is severely lacking.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 11:18 PM   #78 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,207
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
He's one of the best SGs in a time where good SGs are harder to come by than good PGs.
Read my latest post. Try being a bit objective.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 11:19 PM   #79 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
No it's not stupid actually, maybe a little simplified but he practically only contributes on one side of the court and isn't a difference maker on the glass. He's a pure scorer who's been the first option for a time post Bargs/pre-RG and been the 2nd option with RG here. KL hasn't been shooting as much as the season went on. So, it's not that surprising that he gets that much ppg. Statistically it's already been proven by DanH on another board that his midrange game is mediocre-to average. He's made his career out of being a high draft pick and using his calling card-getting to the rim. All his improvements have been ridiculously gradual. Besides getting those FTs he does nothing out of the ordinary, either mediocre - to average or slightly above average. He's the weak-link in the starting lineup defensively. He's been in the nba for 4 seasons and he hasn't reached the 30 % from 3 mark yet. His ballhandling is still pretty subpar. His rebounding is average. His so called athleticism is ridiculously hyped up. He's flatfooted. His apg has increased but once again isn't anything special. Hell, even on playoff teams where do you play him. Most teams (especially playoff teams) require their wings off the bench (and starting) to be a defensive stopper or shooting specialist (or both). If not in a rare case a SF can for example be a good all around player or a point forward like Hedo in his prime or maybe Boris Diaw - a versatile player who can do a bit of everything. So, does DD fit any of these things - can he take on large portions of ballhandling responsibility like a point forward or a SG who can take some pg responsibility? Can he shoot the 3 reliably? Can he be a defensive stopper and handle that role? Can he do a combination of any of the above? You always point to his stats, you know, Ben Gordon put in some similar 18-21 ppg, 3-4 apg/3 rpg type seasons. You're so sure of how good he is or how good he'll become. I recall you were also so sure of how good Bargs was. Try being a bit objective or being more realistic about Raptors players.

I actually like DD but he leaves a lot to be desired. I hope DD becomes an average to good defender and a reliable 3 pt shooter. There is still time but he has a lot of work to do. DD benefits from being in an era where the SG position is severely lacking.
+1
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
Old 06-29-2013, 11:19 PM   #80 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,207
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
DeRozan, Lowry and 2015 1st for Rondo?

Trade Bargnani for 2 future 2nd picks from charlotte

Rondo
Ross
Gay
Fields
JV

Small ball? hhaha:cookie: (being facetious)
Amir would start. Why leave out the team's best big defender?
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24