Stein: Raps to replace BC with Embry/Raps deny report - Page 8
Old 04-24-2011, 07:45 PM   #141 (permalink)
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donnie walsh is a disaster - ok that's a strong word, how about a really bad idea for the raps - precisely because of what he has done in ny. he started out right by getting rid of bad contracts (although getting nothing for z-bo was weak), but blew it all away by getting rid of a deep, defensive-minded team for a quick win with carmelo. i think that trade was just awful for ny (except from a marketing standpoint) because the guys that they got rid of are collectively much better than what they got back. this is exactly what i don't want to see happen with the raps. mortgage the flexibility and youth that you should use to build a long-term team concept by trading it all away for a couple of 'stars' that don't play d and have no quality role players to back them up. we'll see if he can fill the team in during the offseason, but what you are suggesting is picking him up based on this track record (which i think is a huge mistake) before he has a chance to show that he has actually done something positive.

you could make a case for what he did in indiana, but he really just rode reggie for everything he could get.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:46 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Anything's possible I suppose.... but I'd contend that any GM worth his salt would know that THIS would NOT be the right way to go.
isn't this exactly what he just did in ny?
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:10 PM   #143 (permalink)
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isn't this exactly what he just did in ny?
Hmmmm.. different situation in N.Y. though.

I honestly think that Deron going to the Nets just floored him... because I'm SURE that he'd have made a play for him if he thought it was possible.

Now I can't stand 'Melo.... but I can acknowledge that he IS a star and he's very, very good at putting the ball in the basket. N.Y. did give away some good, young talent but it's tough to judge the trade right now since Billups wasn't healthy and they haven't had a chance to shore up their bench yet. They still have Walker and Fields too. The only guy that I think they'll really miss in the long run in Mozgov.

It's still a bit too soon to write off Walsh just based on that ONE "bad deal" which may not even be that bad.

You might argue that BC did the same thing (only worse) when he gave out that contract to Hedo.

At least 'Melo is still in his prime and can play.
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:22 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Walsh did not have an easy ride with Dolan and Isiah behind his back. I really think it takes more than just a good GM.
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:35 PM   #145 (permalink)
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by 'hell of a lot worse' i mean that a guy could come in and start to chart a new course - yet again. we could be waiting years for another attempt, wasting the momentum we have now. we could also end up with a guy that wants to sign veterans and get wins asap, instead of building up a core. those are 2 possibilities that i think would be terrible and that we won't get with bc.
By Colangelo's own admission - this is the route he took last summer. So I'm not writing off the idea that he won't take that possibility. And the fact that it took injuries to perennial bench players for him to see that his team wasn't going anywhere soon and abandon the idea of making further moves, doesn't exactly fill me up with any kind of confidence. I am hopeful that he has continued to grow and learn, but I worry over his tendencies.

Are there not any good assistants out there? Who's working under Buford these days? Surely there is a pool of people that are capable of not signing vets to get a few wins. The same group might even prove capable of trading some of the vets Bryan accumulated for some good pieces to continue to build with.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:23 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Walsh did not have an easy ride with Dolan and Isiah behind his back. I really think it takes more than just a good GM.
This is a good point. I have no interest in supporting or trashing Walsh, since I don't have strong feelings about him. However, it's difficult to know what the fuck happened in New York, especially during the "talks" about bringing in Melo. Dolan came out in the media and trashed reporters for claiming there was a "rift" between him and Walsh/Dantoni. Dolan claimed everybody was on the same page. Afterwards, a number of NY reporters said "not buying it". Maybe the media was just causing shit, or maybe there really was a rift? Walsh did come out and take responsibility for the Melo trade, but what else would you expect him to say? "The owner made me do it!" I found the comments made during game 3 particularly interesting. A couple of the announcers claimed that Walsh and Dantoni were not the ones responsible for the Melo trade, and it took the team in a direction they weren't entirely comfortable pursuing. Whatever the truth is, quite a few people in the media think Dolan forced the trade.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:38 PM   #147 (permalink)
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I don't understand why the Knicks gave up so much for Melo when they could have just signed him as a free agent.

I never would have made that trade.
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:56 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Fans being pissed is just another plus in my eyes. That is only going to give new ownership further impetus to do things right. Why suggest that there will be a joe lunchbox GM? And even if there is a Furby acting as GM, who says that isn't better than having a guy that is high profile, but who doesn't deliver anything much beyond public relations? That Furby with the right ownership that needs to win as much, if not more than just put enough of a positive spin on the team to sell seats, might just get better results. I don't think we are realizing how corrosive the political situation surrounding this team, and the Leafs, and that soccer team, er football club, has been year in and year out. I would be more than happy to see a Furby that does not need to get Charles Barkley to say something nice about the team during All-Star weekend, or fight battles in the papers, or try to get out ahead of public opinion by having ridiculous press conferences suggesting that the team is a buyer that is willing to spend now to get ahead. Believe it or not there is a job there that needs to be done, and it involves getting the most out of every single employee rather than being loyal to the ones that say your ass smells like roses. The most important stuff has to do with day-to-day management that we never hear about, and not so much having perceived connections around the league. Let's see - what has BC's cache gotten us - trades and signings that got rescinded and no recognizable change in the way the team is perceived. Nice.
Fair points but there's a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. If you are unhappy with the job Colangelo did, fire Colangelo when the season ends. Don't NOT fire Colangelo and have reports swirling on ESPN about some douche bag accountant on the board that doesn't like him because he thinks the only reason he got his job in Phoenix was his dad and he has a friend who he thinks can do a better job. So now we're faced with the prospect of having a GM without a contract making our no. 1 pick a week before his contract expires? That's just the way we roll up here in "Clippers North"

This franchise has been pathetically mismanaged and plagued by political garbage like this pretty much from the time we were awarded a franchise and the common denominator is the fans continue to suffer having to watch a substandard on-court product almost every single year. Nothing EVER gets done about that small problem. I don't even need to get into the ineptitude of the management of the hockey team or the soccer team...

What did sports fans in this city do to deserve the black plague that is Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment?
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:03 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Fair points but there's a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. If you are unhappy with the job Colangelo did, fire Colangelo when the season ends. Don't NOT fire Colangelo and have reports swirling on ESPN about some douche bag accountant on the board that doesn't like him because he thinks the only reason he got his job in Phoenix was his dad and he has a friend who he thinks can do a better job. So now we're faced with the prospect of having a GM without a contract making our no. 1 pick a week before his contract expires? That's just the way we roll up here in "Clippers North"

This franchise has been pathetically mismanaged and plagued by political garbage like this pretty much from the time we were awarded a franchise and the common denominator is the fans continue to suffer having to watch a substandard on-court product almost every single year. Nothing EVER gets done about that small problem. I don't even need to get into the ineptitude of the management of the hockey team or the soccer team...

What did sports fans in this city do to deserve the black plague that is Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment?
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:31 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Yep - my emphasis lies in the need to get new ownership, and how that would be a much bigger positive than any negative of losing BC might entail. And let's not be so naive as to think BC has not played politics. In many ways he was a good fit with MLSE.

What was bigger to Portland's development - Pritchard or Paul Allen? Give me a Paul Allen or something a little closer to resembling Paul Allen than anything MLSE is going to muster.

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Old 04-28-2011, 05:36 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Yep - my emphasis lies in the need to get new ownership, and how that would be a much bigger positive than any negative of losing BC might entail. And let's not be so naive as to think BC has not played politics. In many ways he was a good fit with MLSE.

What was bigger to Portland's development - Pritchard or Paul Allen? Give me a Paul Allen or something a little closer to resembling Paul Allen than anything MLSE is going to muster.
Depends on who you asked..... Supposedly part of Pritchard's downfall was his unwillingness to credit others around him..... lol
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:47 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Pritchard or Paul Allen? Give me a Paul Allen or something a little closer to resembling Paul Allen than anything MLSE is going to muster.
Well, Bill Simmons actually touched on this in that Sacramento related article that Acie posted. I'd want Paul Allen.
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:43 PM   #153 (permalink)
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You take away all of B.C's moves and just look at the culture of the team, I think he's done a poor job fostering internal competition. The team is kind of like a bunch of boys ever since he came on board. You dog it you still get your playing time. You're 10th man on the bench and perform one game, you still aren't getting any more playing time the next, despite the fact that the team is on a 6 game losing streak.

The Raptors to me are like a horrible team who seems to rely on set rotations like they're a perennial playoff contender with proven players.

Coach's fault. Toronto's fault. Regardless it comes back to Bryan C. I just don't see the type of internal competition being promoted over BC's tenure that makes players great and teams tight. You give those deep bench guys 30 games or so and all motivation seems to be lost.

When you've lost 20 games you should be seeing what works and that just doens't happen. Despite being unsuccessful, BC's teams in Toronto has for the most part always pointed at the guys who are going to get minutes at the start of the year, and at the end of the year it's the same guys.

I see in Derozan a leader that would thrive in that enviorment. Same with Johnson, Amir, Reggie. These guys would beat eachother up in practice and then go hang out. Maybe B.C. is now on the right path.

One thing is clear though which keeps getting mistated. He shouldn't be sticking around to finish what he started. He's already failed once, he's now on his second go of it.
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:03 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Well, Bill Simmons actually touched on this in that Sacramento related article that Acie posted. I'd want Paul Allen.
Yeah - you got me. It was reading that, along with Acie reminding me of the Miles fiasco that gave me that particular insight. It's really quite possible that Pritchard is a bit of a boob. The GM and owner(s) can reinforce their own strengths or their own weaknesses, or make it something of a wash. We all wanted to think of BC as the only real entity. It was nice to see Peddie fade into the background. But BC still had people to answer to and a culture to fit into himself. And all of that pretty much sucked for 16 years.
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