Stein: Raps to replace BC with Embry/Raps deny report - Page 3
Old 04-20-2011, 11:03 PM   #41 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

Lackey
 
Ammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Mighty North Tundra
Posts: 3,527
Representing:
Raptors

If there is going to be another GM coming in, he'd......better......be......good.

I'm not the type to bail on a team as a fan, if only evidenced by still being here talking about them, but I'm in the "it will be hard to remain a fan" camp.

And you know how when a self serving politician finally leaves office, everything is in shambles and he couldn't care less because he's no longer accountable. We the people are screwed and he's looking back laughing in the rear view of his Bentley.

Well, that's how I'm viewing an outgoing Teacher's Fund. They are getting theirs on the way out and we the fans could be left holding an empty bag wondering what happened. Silvestri and anyone else would be long gone and never have to answer any questions.

The Leafs will always be the Leafs no matter what they do, but the Raptors could become the Vancouever Grizzlies in a hurry. Just don't think I could stomach it anymore.
Ammo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 11:13 PM   #42 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,762
Representing:
Default

One more thing comes to mind - this rebuild that we all like, for all the right reasons, was not what BC came into the season with. He says he was forced into it due to injuries, and something about just realizing they didn't have the talent (like you didn't see that before the season started Bryan?). He says they changed their tact in early December, which oddly coincides with the initial reports of the team being up for sale. So maybe he was forced into the rebuild by circumstances. Maybe it was what Eversley had expressed to Silvestri as something that was obvious to everyone in the summer, except Colangelo. Colangelo says that he allowed his ego to take a hit, but maybe that hit came from some clarity from above him, on the occasion when such details would matter a lot more.

Now that's speculating, but no more than the idea that some guy at the top is just stupid. Of course it all comes down to making the team as attractive as possible to suitors, but if Colangelo is such a clear choice for the future of this team, then him staying would not be an issue. The status quo was in doubt back in November, and now the guy that gave us that status quo is in doubt. And we can hope that a real shift takes place with new ownership. I don't see how it can be any worse than what we've seen over and over thus far.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 11:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,762
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammo View Post
If there is going to be another GM coming in, he'd......better......be......good.

I'm not the type to bail on a team as a fan, if only evidenced by still being here talking about them, but I'm in the "it will be hard to remain a fan" camp.

And you know how when a self serving politician finally leaves office, everything is in shambles and he couldn't care less because he's no longer accountable. We the people are screwed and he's looking back laughing in the rear view of his Bentley.

Well, that's how I'm viewing an outgoing Teacher's Fund. They are getting theirs on the way out and we the fans could be left holding an empty bag wondering what happened. Silvestri and anyone else would be long gone and never have to answer any questions.

The Leafs will always be the Leafs no matter what they do, but the Raptors could become the Vancouever Grizzlies in a hurry. Just don't think I could stomach it anymore.
Woah - think about it for a bit. the outgoing teacher's fund is acting on the behalf of all potential owners. They have to if they want the sale to go through. I don't understand the desire to look past business principles and just make it about some guy pranking us all. These guys want the value to be as high as possible, not kick the shit out of the value. That is how the franchise has been operated and that is where we the fans held the bag, because winning didn't matter as long as we continued to hold that bag. There is no way for them to profit now by fucking over the franchise for the future owners. Believe me - the contract that is signed will be fat enough to knock out Mike Tyson. If there is anything out of place then there will be questions needing to be answered. This isn't like selling a used car here.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 11:28 PM   #44 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

Lackey
 
Ammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Mighty North Tundra
Posts: 3,527
Representing:
Raptors

What's changed is fans' tolerance....and a lack of naivety that an organization that says it is commited to winning can make so much money but refuse to spend. And then have us think that a penny pinching organization is not making decisions based on money. Whether Colangelo pinched Silvestri's wife's ass or verbally bitch slapped him to get more money for the team in a meeting, Silvestri's out the door. So if it' a personal vendetta, all the worse that it is played out now. He needs to kiss Colangelo's pinky ring and move on.

And hate or love Chris Bosh, he said one thing right on his way out of town. They have got to spend. They had their chance and didn't. Other organizations, some that don't make money don't wait for some magic formula that gives a team 60 wins while being under the cap before they are willing to spend. Yes, you can throw money at it in the NBA and win.
Ammo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 11:45 PM   #45 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

Lackey
 
Ammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Mighty North Tundra
Posts: 3,527
Representing:
Raptors

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Woah - think about it for a bit. the outgoing teacher's fund is acting on the behalf of all potential owners. They have to if they want the sale to go through. I don't understand the desire to look past business principles and just make it about some guy pranking us all. These guys want the value to be as high as possible, not kick the shit out of the value. That is how the franchise has been operated and that is where we the fans held the bag, because winning didn't matter as long as we continued to hold that bag. There is no way for them to profit now by fucking over the franchise for the future owners. Believe me - the contract that is signed will be fat enough to knock out Mike Tyson. If there is anything out of place then there will be questions needing to be answered. This isn't like selling a used car here.
I would have to argue that part of the franchise value is in not being rudderless as an organization. I like the young players, etc, but if Joe lunchbox GM shows up, we're in trouble.

As fans, we're not about the business process and as Toronto basketball fans, show me where there is room to dick around with the perception of where we may be going next. I'm serious when I say they had better watch out for the arena looking like the Phoenix Coyotes arena. Some people are already totally turned off. And it is their right to be. They are paying for and investing emotionally in a team, not a business tug of war. And so if business principles say that they need to get jerked around, God bless 'em if they say "I don't have to take this".

Now throw in a lockout. Good luck to them.
Ammo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 12:38 AM   #46 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,153
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartB View Post
This dork, hes a vice president at the Teachers Pension Plan:
He probably thinks B.C. is overpaid, and he's most likely right.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 01:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,493
Representing:
Default

If Colangelo goes, they can replace me with another fan. I cannot stand any more years more of complete stupidity from MLSE. Their back up plan is Embry and nobody else...? Really... ?
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 02:42 AM   #48 (permalink)
baking the cookies of discontent.

Corner 3


 
finstock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,140
Representing:
Default

Embry got more in return for Kareem than BC did for Bosh. And Bosh is like a gazillion times better. Embry > BC. Thread complete.
finstock is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 04:06 AM   #49 (permalink)
playoffs please dont end

FTMFW
 
Shifty.py's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,599
Representing:
Default

Awesome uprise when fans realized what is in store if BC is let go

Sure blame BC because he didn't spend and didn't produce. Guess what, he did the best he could but was limited by staying under tax.
Shifty.py is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 06:56 AM   #50 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,762
Representing:
Default

Fans being pissed is just another plus in my eyes. That is only going to give new ownership further impetus to do things right. Why suggest that there will be a joe lunchbox GM? And even if there is a Furby acting as GM, who says that isn't better than having a guy that is high profile, but who doesn't deliver anything much beyond public relations? That Furby with the right ownership that needs to win as much, if not more than just put enough of a positive spin on the team to sell seats, might just get better results. I don't think we are realizing how corrosive the political situation surrounding this team, and the Leafs, and that soccer team, er football club, has been year in and year out. I would be more than happy to see a Furby that does not need to get Charles Barkley to say something nice about the team during All-Star weekend, or fight battles in the papers, or try to get out ahead of public opinion by having ridiculous press conferences suggesting that the team is a buyer that is willing to spend now to get ahead. Believe it or not there is a job there that needs to be done, and it involves getting the most out of every single employee rather than being loyal to the ones that say your ass smells like roses. The most important stuff has to do with day-to-day management that we never hear about, and not so much having perceived connections around the league. Let's see - what has BC's cache gotten us - trades and signings that got rescinded and no recognizable change in the way the team is perceived. Nice.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 07:56 AM   #51 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

well said LX.

Frankly i don't think Colangelo has been that good.... not saying i would rather pick someone behind a mystery door over him, but i am hardly shaking in my boots over the prospect of someone else running the team.

I think a lot of this reaction has to do with the massive insecurities and inferiority complex that many Raptor fans have.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 08:33 AM   #52 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

I don't even give a shit anymore, we haven't been any good with em, and likely won't without em, the team sucks and the roster isn't that good.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 09:04 AM   #53 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,784
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiggmo View Post
I don't even give a shit anymore, we haven't been any good with em, and likely won't without em, the team sucks and the roster isn't that good.
That can all change with one lottery ball. The team has some building blocks, but no player that can take over in the playoffs. Kyrie Irving, defense, court vision, and passing with the ability to make teammates better. The Raps have an 15.6% chance of winning the lottery. Also, Minnesota with stack of point guards, has a 25% chance of winning the lottery. Washington (John wall) has a 11.9% of winning the lottery. Only hope of a fast rebuild, Rap take #1 in the draft, or take #2 in the draft, and a team like Minnesota or Washington landing No. 1. One point guard (Kyrie Irving), one wing player (Demar Derozan), one big man (Ed Davis) as cornerstones for this franchise.
RAPMAN is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 09:15 AM   #54 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,517
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
well said LX.

Frankly i don't think Colangelo has been that good.... not saying i would rather pick someone behind a mystery door over him, but i am hardly shaking in my boots over the prospect of someone else running the team.

I think a lot of this reaction has to do with the massive insecurities and inferiority complex that many Raptor fans have.
I don't think it's an inferiority complex. I think it's because when you look at the NBA landscape and you look at the limitations that go with being an NBA GM in Canada you want somebody with experience and with at least some NBA success and connections. Let's face it, you may not like the results the last 3 seasons, or overall in BC's tenure here but let's look at the options he had going forward. I would say if you have 5 good to very good FA out there if they have options to go to good american markets (ie: Chicago, LAL, NYK and others...) and come here, they will not come here. His trades imo have been mostly impressive, his draft record is impressive as well. So i guess what i'm saying is if there are 10 FA's in a summer that we would consider worth targeting, how many actually want to come here probably eliminates half right off the bat... then the other half you have to chose from, have to fit into what we're trying to accomplish, be the right character guys and have to satisfy a need or needs going forward and not be way overpayed. So again, things that are mostly in his control (ie: Trades, Draft) i think it's safe to say he's done pretty well even when including Bargnani. I think it's pretty safe to say that most Raptors fans are happy with the direction we're currently headed in at the moment and have confidence in Colangelo to do the job in the draft. And i would say most of his moves when made, yielded positive feedback from the fanbase. Which imo matters a great deal because you can see the logic in the moves at the time, and that's all i can ask for with the obvious limited options any GM would have here.

I think most have absolutely no confidence in MLSE to have a clue who to get to replace him long term, no confidence in MLSE or whoever are the future owners(s) to spend the money on another top notch GM. That's the problem, the ownership problem, the lack of drive they seem to have to go out and spend on another real GM, or hell a real coach (cheaped out on coaching now for 10yrs).

Last edited by jeffb; 04-21-2011 at 09:23 AM.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 09:37 AM   #55 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

i elaborated on my thought in a new thread, but i think Colangelo's track record with free agents in toronto is pretty shabby. His 'clout' so to speak hasn't really gotten us anywhere.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 09:53 AM   #56 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,517
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
i elaborated on my thought in a new thread, but i think Colangelo's track record with free agents in toronto is pretty shabby. His 'clout' so to speak hasn't really gotten us anywhere.
No shit, but again like i said. Out of say 10 FA in any given summer. Name me one of the top 5 that would pick here over NYK, LAL, CHicago, Dallas, SA or any of the better markets in the US. Then the other 5 you have to try not to over pay, sign what is needed and who fits. ALL OF THAT limits what can be done in free agency, period. Trades and drafting is the only way to try and build a winning culture here, then bigger names MAY come here. And imo we're headed in the right direction. You seriously don't think we as a market have limitations in the free agent market no matter who the GM is? If so you're delusional. Add to that if BC is replaced by a stiff or inexperience cheap GM....
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 10:34 AM   #57 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
No shit, but again like i said. Out of say 10 FA in any given summer. Name me one of the top 5 that would pick here over NYK, LAL, CHicago, Dallas, SA or any of the better markets in the US. Then the other 5 you have to try not to over pay, sign what is needed and who fits. ALL OF THAT limits what can be done in free agency, period. Trades and drafting is the only way to try and build a winning culture here, then bigger names MAY come here. And imo we're headed in the right direction. You seriously don't think we as a market have limitations in the free agent market no matter who the GM is? If so you're delusional. Add to that if BC is replaced by a stiff or inexperience cheap GM....
.... and?

so what has BC actually done that makes him so irreplaceable?

I think Toronto has is in a strange position within the league which may be disadvantageous, but that doesn't really have anything concrete to do with Colangelo coming back or not. In fact one could say that given those limitations Colangelo has shown he isn't capable of succeeding.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 10:35 AM   #58 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

the funny thing is i actually don't care if BC is back or not. I think he's OK as GM and i'd be fine with him coming back, but I am just playing the other side of the argument here in trying to figure out why he is so irreplaceable.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 10:40 AM   #59 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,517
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
the funny thing is i actually don't care if BC is back or not. I think he's OK as GM and i'd be fine with him coming back, but I am just playing the other side of the argument here in trying to figure out why he is so irreplaceable.
You know, as much as i want him back. I'd be fine if he wasn't brought back if i had any confidence he'd be replaced with an experienced GM that knew wtf he was doing and that were commited to spend on that guy. I have a sinking feeling that they say behind closed doors "we spent money and it didn't pan out, now let's go cheap". The way this is being handled is an absolute joke.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 02:13 PM   #60 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,762
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
You know, as much as i want him back. I'd be fine if he wasn't brought back if i had any confidence he'd be replaced with an experienced GM that knew wtf he was doing and that were commited to spend on that guy. I have a sinking feeling that they say behind closed doors "we spent money and it didn't pan out, now let's go cheap". The way this is being handled is an absolute joke.
That's not the situation though. Nobody is suggesting there is a need to go cheap. There is a process involving everything being handed over, and it has to be done with everything being okayed by potential buyers, or at least with respect to their wishes. It's a shitty situation for Colangelo, but it actually helps the process along to have no major commitments and to be looking at a lockout where no major commitments will be needed. It would be cool if BC could take a short-term deal in the interim, but that would be a little crazy with no GM being necessary for the short-term as far as anyone knows. Of course if he was indeed irreplaceable, then they pay him knowing that it's possibly wasted money for a year, and that would have to get a nod from the future owners.

I just hope they are a good ways down the path of everything changing hands. I haven't been to a game in a couple of years, and the primary reason is that I felt like games were treated as a sideshow that didn't matter, and that all the corporate branding was the main emphasis. I would hope that with new owners, it would be important for their own brand to be strengthened, and that they could see winning as the best way to achieve that. It might be a matter of degrees of a difference, but even that will help lure me back to live games again.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24