Stein: Raps to replace BC with Embry/Raps deny report - Page 2
Old 04-20-2011, 07:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,752
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammo View Post
Two things....

2. Colangelo does have some pride, self respect and common sense. Hang him out there to dry too long and a team that is not so concerned about profit- New York? - snatches him up and we are left with fast-talking Bob the rookie GM who needs to learn the ropes at $750,000/yr.
I agree....

I like BC and the course that he is on. The potential of the team is there with the pick/capspace/young guns. With the right moves this draft/summer I think the team can really make strides forward.

I'm really tired of all the changes every few years. Every time we do the team takes a step back, every GM has to have their own coach and put their mark on the team by making changes that suits what they think is the right way to play with their type of players. Not saying they are wrong but looking back over the years the Raps really haven't had a chance to grow and gel together with a consistent starting 5.
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 07:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
back to fold laundry

Senior Member
 
FoldedLaundry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,393
Representing:
Default

This situation is getting crazier everyday. This needs to stop. I've liked what BC has done for the team and I really want him to finish what he has started. Our future looks really bright with him at the helm.
FoldedLaundry is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 07:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,309
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldedLaundry View Post
This situation is getting crazier everyday. This needs to stop. I've liked what BC has done for the team and I really want him to finish what he has started. Our future looks really bright with him at the helm.
I'm getting the feeling that he wants out of this three ring circus. It has to be frustrating.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 08:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

Lackey
 
Ammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Mighty North Tundra
Posts: 3,517
Representing:
Raptors

Honestly, our biggest asset may seem like young guns, picks or spending money, but even bigger is a GM with experience, connections, one who knows exactly what to expect in dealing around the league and one who can seemingly flip any bad contract. His resume is extensive and this city and this situation calls for that. It's tough enough with some agents telling Toronto not to bother trying to acquire their clients.

Can you see some up and coming rookie GM type like Shareef Abdur Rahim or Allan Houston out there feeling around in the dark?

The only buffer we have between fans and corporate greed is a GM who actually wants to win and is not afraid to at least try and fill needs.

And haven't we seen enough of people who don't want to be here to let someone walk who does want to be here even though he'd have other options around the league?

Last edited by Ammo; 04-20-2011 at 08:56 PM.
Ammo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 08:39 PM   #25 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,478
Representing:
Default

This entire situation is stupid.

Say what you want about Bryan's record as Raptor GM, but he is the best option out there. He knows and loves this city, has respect around the league and can pull off some nice deals. He has a very good draft record. Even though he drafted Bargnani 1st overall, only one other player selected in the top 5 in that draft is a starter (LaMarcus Aldridge- who at the time was seen as a redundancy to Bosh). I will be very disappointed if Bryan Colangelo does not get an extention.
js12 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 08:58 PM   #26 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,478
Representing:
Default

Quote:
So there are two questions here: One, does Colangelo deserve another shot at rebuilding this team? And two, how much does that matter?

First things first. You can argue over Colangelo’s tenure. His first year was a triumph; everything since then has been a decline that eventually forced him to utter the word “rebuilding.” He’s had bad luck — and the fact that the Raptors could be headed for a top-five pick in what looks like the worst draft since the one in which they selected Andrea Bargnani at No. 1 might qualify — but mistakes have been made. They’re rebuilding because he helped run the place down.

If you’re defending Colangelo, you point to his draft record — most recently DeMar DeRozan at No. 9, and Ed Davis at No. 13. You accept that Bargnani is probably the fifth-best player from the 2006 draft (Rajon Rondo, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay, Paul Millsap, with Brandon Roy’s knees forcing him from the conversation). You point out that he’s a driven competitor, a plugged-in operator, and that he nearly stole Tyson Chandler last summer. He makes creative trades, and he drafts well. That, in a new NBA environment, is probably going to be how success is achieved.

If you’re Glen Silvestri, you point to his belief in the big Italian — saying “we know he can rebound, but he doesn’t focus on it” is not unlike me saying I know I can eat cat food, but I don’t focus on it. Really, you probably just say: “Jermaine O’Neal,” then “Hedo Turkoglu.” You point to Jose Calderon’s contract, and maybe Bargnani’s as well. You point to a lot of things.

Not 22-60, necessarily. This season went about as well as possible, of course, even if that wasn’t what Colangelo had in mind. He only arrived at rebuilding late — “the reality called for us to rebuild this team,” as he put it — but he put the best face on it, shedding salary and panning for gold in guys like Jerryd Bayless and James Johnson. The team tried, but failed. Exactly as it should have been, aside from the draft being a scrap heap.

But then we come to the second part of the equation: Does it matter if he deserves it? Teachers runs its businesses like businesses, and businesses generally don’t add long-term fiscal commitment to their books while those books are being compiled by Morgan Stanley in order to entice somebody to part with an awful lot of money. If you’re selling a house, you don’t add a waterslide before putting it on the market. If Colangelo had spent the last four years covering himself in glory, there would be no debate, and he’d be a slam dunk. He didn’t. He’s not.

So yes, MLSE is doing damage to its reputation by letting a respected general manager flutter in the wind. Yes, they should make a decision one way or the other, since one little general manager shouldn’t do much damage to the sale price. And no, there is no consensus on Colangelo. He wants to stay. It’s hard to say for certain that’s the right thing, but it wouldn’t be the worst one.
Colangelo’s record might not matter | Posted Sports | National Post
js12 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 08:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
raptor jesus

Senior Member
 
Don Vito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

If Wayne Embry becomes the GM i'll stop watching the raptors.
Don Vito is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,309
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
If Wayne Embry becomes the GM i'll stop watching the raptors.
Get ready then, b/c it's likely coming.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,309
Representing:
Default

Quote:
The move could possibly go down because while Colangelo does have his supporters in the Toronto front office, keeping on a high-priced GM with a dubious record in Toronto (and, at this point, we wouldn't be wrong in picking apart his time in Phoenix) through the summer, fall, and possibly winter months when teams aren't allowed to even speak to their players (much less sign, trade or negotiate with new ones) doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

And because Embry is already on the Raptor payroll, why not hand him the keys to a car that has a boot on all four wheels?
Quote:
I'm clearly on the side that wonders just why anyone would want to give Colangelo a third (or possibly fourth, depending on what you think of the Hedo Turkoglu(notes) signing and eventual trading) chance to run this team. He hasn't exactly salted the soil in Toronto, but he hasn't done much else.

And what's the point of keeping him around, as the NBA tries to manufacture rules regarding player acquisition that would stand to prevent Colangelo from doing the same damage to himself and his team all over again?
The Raptors may not want Bryan Colangelo around this summer - Ball Don't Lie - NBABlog - Yahoo! Sports
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,478
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Get ready then, b/c it's likely coming.
I agree...

He was a virtual lock to stay with this franchise, but I'm getting a sinking feeling that it's more likely that he will not return.

MLSE has a good way of ruining it's franchises... forcing De Rosario from Toronto FC, not letting the Raptors go over the cap, etc.
js12 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:08 PM   #31 (permalink)
blah!

nosce te ipsum


 
fancylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: east side.
Posts: 14,625
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
If Wayne Embry becomes the GM i'll stop watching the raptors.
i'll probably watch them as much as i watched them this year.

So yeah i'll be in the same boat as you.
fancylad is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:11 PM   #32 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,309
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by js12 View Post
I agree...

He was a virtual lock to stay with this franchise, but I'm getting a sinking feeling that it's more likely that he will not return.

MLSE has a good way of ruining it's franchises... forcing De Rosario from Toronto FC, not letting the Raptors go over the cap, etc.
Not to mention their main team that has been horrid for the better part of their ownership.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:13 PM   #33 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,309
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartB View Post
This dork, hes a vice president at the Teachers Pension Plan:
glen_silvestri@otpp.com
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:16 PM   #34 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,478
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post


Wonder how much hate mail he gets (probably 3 times a day from Bargnani)...
js12 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:24 PM   #35 (permalink)
raptor jesus

Senior Member
 
Don Vito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

If only some rich billionaire bought the raptors, sick of the MLSE bullshit.
Don Vito is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 09:55 PM   #36 (permalink)
Captain of the Jamario Moon fan club.

Born Unready
 
Dark Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Electric Avenue
Posts: 15,475
Representing:
Default

It's gonna be hard continuing to be a Raptor fan if this happens...
Dark Knight is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 10:05 PM   #37 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,696
Representing:
Default

My guess is that Colangelo was good at impressing the ownership over the years, but pissed some people off below him - maybe quite a few. Silvestri has connections with Marc Eversley. So maybe he has a direct line to a lot of griping. There's no doubt Colangelo has some abilities, but it's not hard to notice that much of his talents get used digging himself out of holes of his own making. We have no idea what might be going on with the big picture. Colangelo handles and sells the details that we know of very well, but his managerial style might also be causing a lot of dissent and dysfunction that undermines a lot of that. It could be entirely possible that this Silvestri dude isn't that much of a dick. It could be Colangelo.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 10:13 PM   #38 (permalink)
AirBramp10

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 15
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
My guess is that Colangelo was good at impressing the ownership over the years, but pissed some people off below him - maybe quite a few. Silvestri has connections with Marc Eversley. So maybe he has a direct line to a lot of griping. There's no doubt Colangelo has some abilities, but it's not hard to notice that much of his talents get used digging himself out of holes of his own making. We have no idea what might be going on with the big picture. Colangelo handles and sells the details that we know of very well, but his managerial style might also be causing a lot of dissent and dysfunction that undermines a lot of that. It could be entirely possible that this Silvestri dude isn't that much of a dick. It could be Colangelo.
According to Dave Feschuk, Eversley has been trying to convince Silvestri to keep Colangelo. So I'm sticking to my theory that Silvestri is the dick.
BartB is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 10:14 PM   #39 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,309
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartB View Post
According to Dave Feschuk, Eversley has been trying to convince Silvestri to keep Colangelo. So I'm sticking to my theory that Silvestri is the dick.
i have to agree.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 10:49 PM   #40 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,696
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartB View Post
According to Dave Feschuk, Eversley has been trying to convince Silvestri to keep Colangelo. So I'm sticking to my theory that Silvestri is the dick.
this is from Feschuk's piece

Quote:
Could it be that an otherwise dreary 22-win season has been the setting for a double-cross worthy of the bloodiest Shakespearean tragedy? Could Eversley be engineering a backstabbing coup?

The answer, multiple NBA sources will tell you, is a resounding no. Eversley, 41, has carved out a reputation as a hard-working Colangelo loyalist who one day hopes to climb higher in the NBA ranks, but it’s well understood around the franchise that he currently wouldn’t be in line to succeed Colangelo as GM. In a league in which relationships are currency, crossing Colangelo, an NBA lifer whose father, Jerry, is one of the game’s most influential and respected power brokers, would amount to self-induced career bankruptcy.

To the contrary, sources say Eversley, who declined to comment, has made good-faith attempts to sell Colangelo’s rebuilding plan on Silvestri,
There's nothing in there that precludes Eversley having fed him information. Nor is there any evidence of the guy trying to convince Silvestri that BC should stay. Even if he is selling the rebuild plan, he might not be selling the way Colangelo does business.

It's easy to say Silvestri is a dick. There is just too much we don't know. We do know that BC fired a coach at the start of a season and gave no real reason. For all we know it was because he felt Sam was making him look bad by playing his #1 pick at small forward. Triano has been a complete yes man since then.

For me the biggest problem is that ownership doesn't get all that involved in the way the team is operated outside of revenue. There is not a lot of accountability anywhere in this franchise, from top to bottom. Change the ownership and we might see a very different Colangelo, or we might see someone else that will be held accountable. To me that is more important than any magic any of us think that Colangelo is able to perform. Let's just get this deal done, and be thankful for a lockout I guess.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24