Sonny Weems FA worth? - Page 2
Old 11-19-2010, 09:00 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Atleticsm, defense, and a good attitude. He should be part of the future as the first wing player coming off the bench. How do some posters call him a chucker. With, Sonny shooting .531 from the field, he's putting up high percentage shots. If he continues to develop, I wouldn't mind getting rid of Kleiza.

Last edited by RAPMAN; 11-19-2010 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Weems on the open market will demand 5-6 million. That's not a GOOD deal for the raptors, but it isn't that bad either and they can't let Sonny walk. If Weem's stats deserve the money by the end of the season, good on him lets pay em. BC loves to throw money around, and I don't mind setting a precedent if you play hard and well for the Raps you'll get a contract...I could summarize this post simply by saying - none of us trust BC to sign him cheaply - as long as he doesn't get near Calderon money, i'll be happy.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:37 AM   #23 (permalink)
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So many of you guys are so near-sighted and see a guy play above his real worth for a few games and just jump on the bandwagon to pay him an inflated number. Weems is averaging 18 pts in the last 5 games... no way this stat holds up over the long-term. He's also averaging over 2.0 turnovers per game.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:42 AM   #24 (permalink)
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So many of you guys are so near-sighted and see a guy play above his real worth for a few games and just jump on the bandwagon to pay him an inflated number. Weems is averaging 18 pts in the last 5 games... no way this stat holds up over the long-term. He's also averaging over 2.0 turnovers per game.
dude - we're saying that if he keeps this up and posts those numbers all year long he might be worth that amount. read the posts...
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:49 AM   #25 (permalink)
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It's going to be tough enough to pry him away from DeMar.
Yup, I haven't seen guys that close since Steve Francis -Cutinho Mobley. And Sonny said DeMar can't do anything by himslef. He may have been half joking but he said DeMar won't order a pizza by himself.

There's space for both because they are starting to prove themselves. There is especially space if they get that primo PG and a good centre.

And for those who think Jose is unmoveable, he might be more attractive with just one more year ticked off his contract combined with expiring(s).

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Old 11-19-2010, 10:08 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Well He`s good for now, but I don`t think he will be always avering 18~ points a game. We just have to wait for more played games, but offcourse it`s a good thing that Weems keeping a good level for now.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:36 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Well He`s good for now, but I don`t think he will be always avering 18~ points a game. We just have to wait for more played games, but offcourse it`s a good thing that Weems keeping a good level for now.
No one can say that he is at his ceiling though. How good he and DeMar can become, who knows.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:57 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I'll start the bid at $1
anyone have $2?
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:04 AM   #29 (permalink)
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At 14 points, 2.5 reb and 2.5 assists by the end of season, I think 4 years of 3.5mil, 4, 4.5, 5 is fair. Before you say anything, take a good look at the salaries on this roster and around the league. Not bad for a guy who thought he was going to Europe just over a year ago.
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:15 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Yea I'd do 3 years at about $11,500,000.

Weems has been playing really well but he has reached his potential. Don't see how else he can improve. I also don't want to get super biased after three good games. Doubt the consistency will be there even with minutes.

On another note, I don't think Derozan would mind too much if Weems leaves. He'll get more minutes as a 2 and could move to the 3 position.

Raptors main priority is getting a C or PF that would be a defensive presence. Nothing against Weems but we're solid at the SF/Guard positions. Have to spend money wisely on building the team instead of individual players.
U do know Barbosa is a free agent too right?
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:18 AM   #31 (permalink)
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No one can say that he is at his ceiling though. How good he and DeMar can become, who knows.
Not the ceiling for Derozan (sophomore who is 3 years younger) but I don't really see Sonny Weems getting any better. He's played so well the past 5 games that you can't really expect much more from him. He shot the ball exceptionally well, had a game winning 3, drove to the basket, had some ESPN dunks, decent defense, etc. What else can you ask for?

Statistically speaking, Weems is at his cap for the past 5 games: 18 pts, 3 assists, 2.5 rbs, 0.5 steals, 2 turnovers. This is his ceiling in terms of production. The other thing that needs to be factored is that he is averaging 35 minutes over this stretch. That's a lot of minutes for a Raptor. I think his biggest challenge now is to become consistent.

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Old 11-19-2010, 11:20 AM   #32 (permalink)
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U do know Barbosa is a free agent too right?
Yea he has a player option for 2011/2012 for slightly over $7 mill. Highly unlikely that he will turn it down.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:19 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Yea he has a player option for 2011/2012 for slightly over $7 mill. Highly unlikely that he will turn it down.
then we'll just have to make him
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:40 PM   #34 (permalink)
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So many of you guys are so near-sighted and see a guy play above his real worth for a few games and just jump on the bandwagon to pay him an inflated number. Weems is averaging 18 pts in the last 5 games... no way this stat holds up over the long-term. He's also averaging over 2.0 turnovers per game.
Just out of curiosity did you watch the Raptors at all last season? Or did you just jump aboard when Kleiza signed? I'm wondering right now... because if you DID watch this team play last year you'd have known that Sonny started for a stretch of about 20 games or so to end last season... and played VERY well.

So all this talk of "playing above his worth for a few games" is really unfounded IMO.

We heard pretty much the same thing from the Turkish Hedo fans last season though.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:40 PM   #35 (permalink)
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if he puts up those kinds of numbers all year i think it will take 4 years/$20 mil at least. and that would be worth it.
This is truth.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Just out of curiosity did you watch the Raptors at all last season? Or did you just jump aboard when Kleiza signed? I'm wondering right now... because if you DID watch this team play last year you'd have known that Sonny started for a stretch of about 20 games or so to end last season... and played VERY well.

So all this talk of "playing above his worth for a few games" is really unfounded IMO.

We heard pretty much the same thing from the Turkish Hedo fans last season though.
I've been watching the Raptors since Kleiza's arrival so you know him better than I do. I've still seen him play nonetheless. The reality is that Weems is not a better player than Turk or Kleiza. My guess is that Turk received a big contract and had less incentive to hustle and so forth. Everyone here hates Turk but he was very impressive in Orlando. He can't just drop so quickly in one season. You can criticize his Phoenix numbers but hes playing 24 minutes a game. His production is off but I'd still have him over Weems.

Now I just did some research (Hedo Turkoglu 2009-10 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com) and judging by games in which Turk played 35 minutes (in Toronto)Turk was rather productive statistically. Maybe he didn't score 18 pts every time, but he grabbed a bunch of rebounds and handed a decent number of assists. Turks complaint was that he wasn't playing enough. This may be off topic, but now I understand a big problem in Toronto. Management may be an issue. The coaching staff needs to do a better job of distributing minutes. Triano needs to pick his 5/6 main guys and give them almost 30 minutes each. Enough with this sharing 22 minutes between two guys nonsense.

Weems is playing well and so forth.. bla bla bla. When a guy plays 35 minutes a game then he will have decent stats. Give Brian Scalabrine 35 minutes and he'll look good. Now looking at Kleiza, his biggest minutes games are (38, 34, 27) where he's averaging 18 pts and 5 rbs per game. Now Weems' biggest games (41, 37, 34) he's also averaging about 18 pts. I'm prob making this post confusing, but what I'm trying to argue is that if you give Kleiza or Weems 35+ each night, then Kleiza will be more productive. For this season, adjusted to playing 36 minutes, Kleiza's numbers may look like this: 15.7 pts, 5.1 rbs, 2 assists. Weems numbers would be 14 pts, 2.5 rbs, 2 assists.

Remember that Kleiza is putting his numbers up being slightly injured and fatigued from the European Championship. Weems is a better man to man defender but Kleiza is a better rebounder. Kleiza is a better post player and 3 point shooter, but Weems is a better driver. Weems is getting minutes because Kleiza was hurt and not because he outplayed him. Now he's on a hot streak so Triano is leaving him in. Fine. Then play Weems 36 minutes a game and barely put Kleiza in. Once Weems cools down put in Kleiza for 36 minutes. Players need to get into a grove.

Pay Weems 3.5 million for 3 years. We already have Kleiza. No need to overpay two guys. Otherwise he can leave and get a cheap backup. Toronto needs to have 5 core guys making decent money and 2 strong backups. This group should be getting paid. Maybe that can include Weems although we need a real C backup. Don't over pay ten guys and have them share minutes each game.

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Old 11-19-2010, 03:08 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Give Brian Scalabrine 35 minutes and he'll look good.
Well played, sir. Well played. No debating that.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:54 PM   #38 (permalink)
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4 year 20 mill range would be ideal


coming off a career high, idk how some of you can claim he's reached his peak, even if he did play 42 minutes, a statement such as that holds no weight whatsoever...


Sonny and DeMar are the only players that have impressed me, I hope he'll keep starting and get large minutes when Kleiza regains his health.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:58 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Well played, sir. Well played. No debating that.
lol... for what it's worth here are most of Scalabrine's career games above 30 minutes:

2002-04-14. 31 Minutes: 16 pts, 9 rbs
2003-01-17. 35 Minutes: 8 pts, 4 rbs, 2 blks
2003-01-31. 42 Minutes: 5 pts, 7 rbs, 3 ast, 2 blks
2003-02-01. 41 Minutes: 16 pts, 7 rbs,
2003-02-05. 37 Miuntes: 12 rbs, 8 rbs, 5 ast, 2 blks
2003-02-14. 33 Minutes: 8 pts, 6 rbs, 3 ast.
2003-02-25. 31 Minutes: 4 pts, 7 rbs, 2 blks, 2 ast
2003-11-04: 34 Minutes: 7 pts, 7 rbs, 3 ast, 1 blk
2004 season: 14 games over 30+ minutes... adjusted per 26 minutes would be 10.5 pts, 7 rbs, 3 ast, 1 steal per game.
2007-02-28. 36 Minutes: 14 pts
2007-03-03. 24 Minutes: 5 pts, 5 rbs
Preseason games against Toronto 2010 (Oct 20th) Scalabrine dropped 14 pts and 4 assists on us.

My point is that anyone who makes it to the NBA can put stats up when they get to play 35 minutes. I think a healthy Kleiza is more productive than Weems. If some of you guys think Weems is, fine, so be it. But I rather see one play 35 minutes every night. When Barbosa is available it would be foolish to split minutes 24/24. Both guys play best when their on the floor for over 30 minutes.

The reality is that Kleiza has a 4 year deal at about 5 million a year. If you can sign Weems for 4 million or less, then trade Kleiza. No point giving them both 5 million to have them share minutes. Barbosa is not going to forfeit his 7 million player option next year. Don't overpay for bench role players. Choose one that is worth the money and will play 35 minutes a night and sign a cheap backup.

Why overpay two guys fighting for one position? You already have two overpaid PGs in Calderon and Jack. You have Amir making a lot of money and playing 20 minutes coming off the bench.

PG Jarret Jack (5.2 mill), Calderon (9.7 mill)
SG Derozan (2.6 mill), Barbosa (7 mill)
SF Kleiza (5 mill)
PF Amir (5.5 mill), Ed Davis (2 mill)
C Bargnani (9 mill)

Raptors need a true defensive C... why overpay for guards/SFs when we have a bunch already. Our bench is overpaid. Have legit starters who are deserving paid and have cheap backups. Already have Calderon/Barbosa as overpaid backups so why give Sonny a big contract? You'd have to trade Kleiza because having them share minutes and getting paid 5 mill each is very dumb. Turk was right... the management is ridiculous. WTF is Colangelo doing. Paying so much for a team that is 3-9.

Last edited by mb666; 11-19-2010 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:05 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Please don't mention Brian Scalabrine again because it will make me break out in hives.
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