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-   -   Some of the players were "quite put off" by the selection of JV? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/some-players-were-quite-put-off-selection-jv-20724.html)

Acie 07-04-2011 08:20 AM

Some of the players were "quite put off" by the selection of JV?
 
Quote:

Q: Hi Doug. I like the pick. It may be a long shot, but in a weak draft, that's the time to take a chance.

Do you have any thoughts on what the players think? I don't think Brian exactly asks "what do you think?", but am curious if they saw this coming. It gives us an idea of how well they may buy into the "future" of the club. An previous drafts that were "surprises" to the players as well as fans?....sans Hoffa

Cheers

Jim F, Toronto

A: I’m told – without any first-hand knowledge I’ll fully admit – that some of the players who were in town were quite put off by the pick. That’s entirely born of ignorance, of course, because none of them have any idea whether or not the kid can play and if he can, they’ll love him.
LINK - Toronto Star

LKeet6 07-04-2011 08:32 AM

I found it surprising to learn that players are quite ignorant of the draft. Would've thought they would hear staff and coaches talking about it and maybe just seen on tv or read about the prospects. I mean a tiny amount of research would have you knowing who the top 10 prospects are and what the projected draft is.

as doug said, if he shows he can ball the players will be fine with it.

LX 07-04-2011 08:48 AM

Chances are it was more about the guys they did know something about that didn't get picked. It might also reflect some dismay over Bargnani's style of play, even if there is no connection or similarity - that would be where the ignorance might have come into play.

MARTYNAS 07-04-2011 09:16 AM

Why the hell such a dismay as Bargnani's style of play exists? If they dont know Jonas, why the very first born thought is - he play like Bargnani? Why? Because he born in the same continent? You know, Kapono and Jordan born in the same fuckin continent, they born in the same COUNTRY!!
I hate that racist stereotypes. It crosses with basic logic. Europe has more than 45 countries damn it! It's Europe, not some village...

DocHoliday99 07-04-2011 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 557027)
Chances are it was more about the guys they did know something about that didn't get picked. It might also reflect some dismay over Bargnani's style of play, even if there is no connection or similarity - that would be where the ignorance might have come into play.

Why would you even bring Bargs in to this discussion, he's not part of the article and thats one helluva subjective tie together to suggest team players are dismayed about JV's style to Bargs.

js12 07-04-2011 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 (Post 557033)
Why would you even bring Bargs in to this discussion, he's not part of the article and thats one helluva subjective tie together to suggest team players are dismayed about JV's style to Bargs.

It's reasonable to bring in Bargnani. A lot of people labelled JV as another "soft Euro" when he was drafted. I wasn't that happy at first, but it wasn't because of the stereotype. I was more concerned about the buyout, and upset Knight wasn't picked when he was on the board. Right now, I'm happy with the pick and feel that BC made the right one.

DocHoliday99 07-04-2011 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by js12 (Post 557034)
It's reasonable to bring in Bargnani. A lot of people labelled JV as another "soft Euro" when he was drafted. I wasn't that happy at first, but it wasn't because of the stereotype. I was more concerned about the buyout, and upset Knight wasn't picked when he was on the board. Right now, I'm happy with the pick and feel that BC made the right one.

That's from fans. Certainly not anyone that has watched this kid play.

As for the buy out, I had it in my other posts, that was the only reason that would have deterred myself

js12 07-04-2011 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 (Post 557035)
That's from fans. Certainly not anyone that has watched this kid play.

As for the buy out, I had it in my other posts, that was the only reason that would have deterred myself

I think some players on the roster wanted another point guard and were disappointed that we passed on them. For example, DeRozan had tweeted on how he liked Kemba Walker.

StartingBench 07-04-2011 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 557027)
Chances are it was more about the guys they did know something about that didn't get picked. It might also reflect some dismay over Bargnani's style of play, even if there is no connection or similarity - that would be where the ignorance might have come into play.

This...

A lot of people including people on this board and other bball forums had no idea about Jonas, myself included. He wasn't expected to drop to 5th so most people didn't have him on our radarrs. Without doing any research on the guy, everyone concluded that this is another Bargnanni clone. It was only after when I did some research that I liked the guy.

DocHoliday99 07-04-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by js12 (Post 557036)
I think some players on the roster wanted another point guard and were disappointed that we passed on them. For example, DeRozan had tweeted on how he liked Kemba Walker.


That I can understand but bringing in Bargs and 'soft Euro' label and attributing that to some players is completely conjecture based on what some 'fans' are feeling.

For the record, I like Bargs' skill set, I just feel he's been mismanaged from the get go.

INSIDER 07-04-2011 10:12 AM

I totally agree with LX on this one. The players are pretty much into the NCAA tourney and probably have first hand knowledge of the college athletes, but throw a euro player in the mix, and they have no clue who the kid is. Which is why as soon as they hear about the team drafting a euro, they automatically think of another 'bargnani' type of player.
Just like a lot of the fans... At first, 9 out of 10 fans were up in arms thinking Jonas was a bargnani clone - tall, skinny, euro - it wasn't until after we did our research and saw videos of the kid that we started seeing differently and were happy with the pick. It's only a ignorant first impression... The players will change their tune when they learn about him and see what kind of player he is.

bjjs 07-04-2011 10:21 AM

I don't think they're put off by him being EUropean as much as they're put off by him being a 19 year old European who won't be able to contribute for another 3,4,5, years.

Even when a team is "re-building", there is a delicate balance between the future and the now and this pick was only made with the future in mind. If you have character players on your team, they shouldn't be happy about a pick like that.


They'll get over it when Casey has them start out hot out of the gates. The rest is up to JV.

RAPMAN 07-04-2011 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 (Post 557038)
For the record, I like Bargs' skill set, I just feel he's been mismanaged from the get go.

Bargnani has not been mismanaged. He is a player that plays with no intensity on defense, avoids any contact and wants no part of rebounding.

Mismanaged? The guy has a green light on any plays on offense. Its too bad the guy has a red light on defense all the time. Don't say he should be playing power forward. On offense, he doesn't post up players. He gets the outside the paint, and mostly takes jumpers. On defense, its mostly the undersized Amir Johnson and Ed Davis guarding the centers. Amir Johnson had been fighting back problems the whole season.

If the Toronto players had been playing with some real international players like the Gasol brothers, Dirk, Bogut, no way they go against the pick. Its because they have been playing with one of the softest European player in the NBA that created the negative first reaction by the players.

LX 07-04-2011 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTYNAS (Post 557030)
Why the hell such a dismay as Bargnani's style of play exists? If they dont know Jonas, why the very first born thought is - he play like Bargnani? Why? Because he born in the same continent? You know, Kapono and Jordan born in the same fuckin continent, they born in the same COUNTRY!!
I hate that racist stereotypes. It crosses with basic logic. Europe has more than 45 countries damn it! It's Europe, not some village...

sorry Martynas, but racist is entirely the wrong word. If there was any concern it would be more about the style of play that the GM has seemed to favor, and worrying that the guy they don't know might fit with that. Kapono would fit in with that as well.

It's not all about europe and being against europe. Please note that I pointed out the style of play and nothing else, and don't jump to conclusions so fast. I was one of the first people to point out the very real bigotry concerning Bargnani when he was drafted. But bigotry does not equate to racism as much as racism systematically supports and reinforces bigotry. Racism is a serious offense to accuse any person or group of people of committing. If you do not understand the accusations you are making, and I'm assuming that it's just a language issue in this case, then please refrain.

LKeet6 07-04-2011 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPMAN (Post 557043)
Bargnani has not been mismanaged. He is a player that plays with no intensity on defense, avoids any contact and wants no part of rebounding.

Mismanaged? The guy has a green light on any plays on offense. Its too bad the guy has a red light on defense all the time. Don't say he should be playing power forward. On offense, he doesn't post up players. He gets the outside the paint, and mostly takes jumpers. On defense, its mostly the undersized Amir Johnson and Ed Davis guarding the centers. Amir Johnson had been fighting back problems the whole season.

If the Toronto players had been playing with some real international players like the Gasol brothers, Dirk, Bogut, no way they go against the pick. Its because they have been playing with one of the softest European player in the NBA that created the negative first reaction by the players.

"green light on offense." that is bad management. Also, swapping his position around and not properly playing to his strengths and weaknesses was not great for him.

LX 07-04-2011 10:56 AM

How do you play to weaknesses like failing to defend anyone on important possessions, not even bothering to follow the ball once a shot has been put up, seeing neither his man nor the ball far to often to fathom, and taking wild shots from in close rather than going up strong?

Bargnani was held accountable in an attempt to limit his weaknesses, then he was allowed to make mistakes in order to play to his strengths and have teammates try to make up for those weaknesses, and he just hasn't shown a willingness to develop enough of an awareness of what wins games to warrant any criticism of bad management. It's on him.

TORaptor4Ever 07-04-2011 12:57 PM

A little part of me is worried that when JV comes over we might see another "lockerroom division" with JV, Bargs, Kleiza, Jose on one side and the rest of the guys on the other.

It's pure speculation and paranoia I'll admit.... but I can't shake the feeling after seeing what went on here with Hedo.

MikeToronto 07-04-2011 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 557041)
I don't think they're put off by him being EUropean as much as they're put off by him being a 19 year old European who won't be able to contribute for another 3,4,5, years.

While I see what you are saying in the rest of that post, I'd disagree with the assertion above. IMHO, while he will stay overseas for another season (which, in all likelihood, won't be a season over here), he is going to come over for 2012-13 and contribute at least on one end of the floor almost immediately. As in: I do not expect him to be Alabi-like, more Ed Davis-like.

Carlos Danger 07-04-2011 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 557075)
A little part of me is worried that when JV comes over we might see another "lockerroom division" with JV, Bargs, Kleiza, Jose on one side and the rest of the guys on the other.

It's pure speculation and paranoia I'll admit.... but I can't shake the feeling after seeing what went on here with Hedo.

I'm really hoping that by the time Jonas suits up for us, Bargnani and Calderon woon't even be a Raptor anymore. At least Calderon.

jeffb 07-04-2011 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batman (Post 557078)
I'm really hoping that by the time Jonas suits up for us, Bargnani and Calderon woon't even be a Raptor anymore. At least Calderon.

+1


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