Some of the players were "quite put off" by the selection of JV? - Page 5

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Old 07-05-2011, 08:04 PM   #81 (permalink)
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The bottom line I that this team was lucky, for the second straight year, to get a player that dropped to them. Jonas was the top guy on their list. You don't build a team by passing on the opportunity to get the guy you wanted all along. At the same time they have got to start changing the culture here starting this season. We'll see where that goes with whatever moves transpire, to go along with a new coach with a different approach.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:58 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I was at the Draft party, very close to where Derozan was.

He's the guy that was "put off".

It was no secret that he had a few buddies on the board at 5. Dude was on his cell seemingly bitching to a buddy right after the call.

Thing is, he won't be so sad when Jonas is actually covering his ass on defence when his guys continually blow past his shoddy ass defence, nor will he mind a big that can board and make a solid outlet pass so he can release and get his highlight reel looking good.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:10 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
I was at the Draft party, very close to where Derozan was.

He's the guy that was "put off".

It was no secret that he had a few buddies on the board at 5. Dude was on his cell seemingly bitching to a buddy right after the call.

Thing is, he won't be so sad when Jonas is actually covering his ass on defence when his guys continually blow past his shoddy ass defence, nor will he mind a big that can board and make a solid outlet pass so he can release and get his highlight reel looking good.
If that's the case, better to not coddle him anymore than he has been....

A GM that can make the hard, unpopular decision is exactly what this team needs, and hopefully that emanates on down
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:11 PM   #84 (permalink)
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No less than Knight or Walker.... you get that, right?
If we are talking abt Walker, Knight and Jonas I would say that Kemba is the most matured as a player and what u see is what u get. Knight has been having turnover issue and the scout were all over it. Jonas is still very young and needs to develop an NBA body.
From the 3 I would say Knight is a high risk high return, Jonas is a risk as well, Kemba is know commodity due to the fact he is the NCAA champion and mvp.
Do u get that?
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:13 PM   #85 (permalink)
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If we are talking abt Walker, Knight and Jonas I would say that Kemba is the most matured as a player and what u see is what u get. Knight has been having turnover issue and the scout were all over it. Jonas is still very young and needs to develop an NBA body.
From the 3 I would say Knight is a high risk high return, Jonas is a risk as well, Kemba is know commodity due to the fact he is the NCAA champion and mvp.
Do u get that?
what you see is what you get? A guy that many were questioning if he's good enough to be more than a bench player in the league? Fine, I agree, and am glad we passed on that.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:18 PM   #86 (permalink)
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you go from saying knight has more value among GMs to now saying knight has more value no matter what, in your honest opinion.....well thank goodness no ones takes ur opinion seriously
people here loved knight because we needed a PG and didn't think JV would be there so no one gave it serious thought.
again....if knight had more value, why did he go 8? and after slipping so far why werent people up in arms or scouts in total SHOCK they he slipped so far? because it wasn't that surprising

Talk to me in 2-3 years and we will see who was the best pick from the 2011 draft.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:28 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Talk to me in 2-3 years and we will see who was the best pick from the 2011 draft.
ya, we will see. why don't u quit ur day job and become a fucking scout then? cuz u seem to know something no one else knows
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:04 PM   #88 (permalink)
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This whole draft was a crap shoot. JV may have the highest ceiling of those left at 5. If he can put some weight he is going to be dream come true for this team. The guy likes contact and has great hands and he is looking like he may be a tremendous pick and role center.

But I can see it from the other side as well. DDR is probably feeling like he going to be rotting in Toronto for the next few years before the team establishes a real core. Is it fare to assume that those who disliked the pick were hoping a new PG was picked and that jose was ushered out? If so, I think that is a bigger issue then the late arrival of JV.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:08 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Talk to me in 2-3 years and we will see who was the best pick from the 2011 draft.
I agree we have to wait. In the meantime, I am curious to know how you have evaluated the talent in this year's draft and came away with a completely different conclusion than the vast majority of scouts and GMs who rated JV higher than Kemba Walker. How many games did you see JV play? How many games have you seen Kemba Walker play (in person)? Did you see either of them work out for any NBA team? Did you scout Kemba Walker when he was an 18 year old (which was JV's age last year)?

There is no doubt that Kemba played well in the NCAA. But by that measure Jimmer Fredette was a much better player. Both of them were upper classmen and should be dominating the NCAA, which is now a very young league with most of the good prospects leaving after 1 or 2 years.

Oh, and by the way. Kemba Walker would be 2 years too old to compete in the Under-19 championships that JV is now dominating.

Kemba might well be the ROY. It's a weak class and he is much older than most candidates. I expect that if JV waited two more years to come to the NBA he might have a good chance to dominate rookies too.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:35 AM   #90 (permalink)
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I agree we have to wait. In the meantime, I am curious to know how you have evaluated the talent in this year's draft and came away with a completely different conclusion than the vast majority of scouts and GMs who rated JV higher than Kemba Walker. How many games did you see JV play? How many games have you seen Kemba Walker play (in person)? Did you see either of them work out for any NBA team? Did you scout Kemba Walker when he was an 18 year old (which was JV's age last year)?

There is no doubt that Kemba played well in the NCAA. But by that measure Jimmer Fredette was a much better player. Both of them were upper classmen and should be dominating the NCAA, which is now a very young league with most of the good prospects leaving after 1 or 2 years.

Oh, and by the way. Kemba Walker would be 2 years too old to compete in the Under-19 championships that JV is now dominating.

Kemba might well be the ROY. It's a weak class and he is much older than most candidates. I expect that if JV waited two more years to come to the NBA he might have a good chance to dominate rookies too.
I have watched them both play (on TV, not in person). It's impossible to compare Kemba to Jonas. I am not saying Walker or Knight would be better than Jonas, I am saying they could have brought the immediate impact that we need badly, ASAP and not 1-2 years from now.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:28 AM   #91 (permalink)
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If you're talking US college ball against Junior champs, I'll take US college ball all the time. I get that international games are very competitive, but the best young prospects play in US college ball. Doesn't the international games get all our rejects. Players undrafted or cut from NBA teams. Kemba on an unranked Division 1 team, won the Maui Classic, Big East Tournament, and the NCAA tournament.
Hi, yes, I absolutely agree. US college ball is stronger competition. But at age
19, some N teams are good, and are stronger than college teams : Serbia, USA and so on.

But thats not the point. We talked about being a leader and a winner. I can't imagine better leader and winner than Jonas. Euro junior championships never was a top competition, but it all gave leadership and winners mentality to Jonas. A lot of Canadians were pissed Raptors selected JV, but after researched they started to like him. Holly and thescore crew loves the guy now, they hated on him 1 weeks ago...

The fact is Jonas play like that for 4 years. He is very young, but he already won so many. Being a number one guy on a winning team developed his character and bb IQ. He is clutch and passionate player, who will do everything to win, cause every loss is a disaster to him. And if he lose, he gives 200% next time. Jonas should be an idol to younger kids.

Game against Serbia 2 days ago, tie game, such a intense, Jonas stepped up, 7 points, 3 rebounds in the last 3 minutes, closed game. Yesterday against US. The game was over, USA dominated, but Jonas was beyond belief fantastic, put 30/15 against such a US defense on him, stole OT. I dont know, it was box and one or what, but USA defense on Jonas was just too much. And you hear Jonas was shaking, crying, punching walls after that game.
I believe, he will be special.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:04 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Kemba might well be the ROY. It's a weak class and he is much older than most candidates. I expect that if JV waited two more years to come to the NBA he might have a good chance to dominate rookies too.
Yeah.

Also,

re: comments in this thread about Kemba and the ROY

Opportunity can play a big part in the success of a rookie. From a points and assists standpoint, I think Kemba could have a solid season (I'm more interested to see his fg% at the end of the year). He plays for the Bobcats. They are limited on offense, and will likely allow Kemba to do a lot right away. Heck, he might have so much freedom that he puts up a Jennings-esque scoring performance in a virtually meaningless regular season game against a weak defense. Who knows? I think Kemba could be a good player. But even if he plays well in his rookie season, I most certainly will not start panicking and questioning the pick.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:41 AM   #93 (permalink)
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I'd be put off too knowing this guy will take my or my PF/C friend's minutes.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:53 AM   #94 (permalink)
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There was something written once about how GMs often overcomplicated the draft - this whole smarter than thou thing - they're going to swing for the fences and take, what they think, is the home run draft pick - and show everyone how smart and ballsy they are...meanwhile 9 times out of 10, if they just took the safe pick, they'd have a winning team of good players.

Jonas might end up being the best player in the draft, but he also might end up being the next Araujo. By the way, it should be noted - this was the same logic that made Bargnani the number 1 overall pick in the draft - over Aldridge, etc.

The players were excited to get Knight or Walker. Excited because they play against NBA players and they know what it takes. Knight/Walker are going to be solid players by all accounts. In this situation, it was perhaps the best idea to appease the players and take the safe pick. Walker/Knight and DeRozan could have been a great back court.

I'm excited about Jonas, but I understand the sentiment on behalf of the players.

Also, to discount fan and player reaction as xenophobic and ignorant is just too easy. I'm sorry to point out of the obvious, but count the number of successful white euro centres with your fingers... how many hands does it take? how many were true FRANCHISE players? Sabonis, Divac were great... franchise players? Not sure. Doesn't mean Val won't be excellent...
the bit about knight or walker being much safer bets to be "solid" players than val. Well, bayless would seem to me to have just as much chance as those two of being solid players. We don't have a young C who could become something. it was the right pick.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:23 AM   #95 (permalink)
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ya, we will see. why don't u quit ur day job and become a fucking scout then? cuz u seem to know something no one else knows
Easy now Panda. Making a statement so damned bold like that would put you in the exact same position you're accusing him of being in.


Why not just agree. JV is farther off than Kemba Walker, however, he has a ton of potential. He will have a year to catch up a bit while his classmates sit idle so it will be a bit easier to see where he is after that.

No need to argue over unknowns boys.

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Old 07-06-2011, 01:59 PM   #96 (permalink)
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A lot of the discussion around Kemba right now reminds me of what people were saying about Jameer Nelson a few years ago..... "Too small"... "Not really a PG".... "Good NCAA player but probably won't translate into the pros".

Based on what I've seen Walker will probably succeed and have a career at least as good Nelson's because he also seems to have the 2 qualities that have served Nelson best so far.... Work ethic and Heart.

I'd be very surprised if he's not in the ROY race.

The other guy who I'm starting to think could have been special is Tristan Thompson. I think that he would have been an ideal running mate for Davis and Derozan and something about his personality tells me that he's the kind of player who's going to become a team leader... something that we're still looking for.

We'll see how things go.... Right now I just worry that it's 2006 all over again with BC telling us that "this is a pick for the future and we know that there are probably other players in the draft who are going to come in and contribute more right away".

Hope it's a different outcome this time.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:07 PM   #97 (permalink)
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JV has looked beastly in the U19 tournament.. except for when he got posterized by Patrick Young (but he's completely dominated him in the 2 games).. that wasn't a good look for him at all lol but Young does have a grown man's body.

Last edited by jrob23; 07-06-2011 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:48 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
I was at the Draft party, very close to where Derozan was.

He's the guy that was "put off".

It was no secret that he had a few buddies on the board at 5. Dude was on his cell seemingly bitching to a buddy right after the call.

Thing is, he won't be so sad when Jonas is actually covering his ass on defence when his guys continually blow past his shoddy ass defence, nor will he mind a big that can board and make a solid outlet pass so he can release and get his highlight reel looking good.
My take on it, DD is not good enough and has not done enough to have allegedly displayed a prima Dona attitude like that. JV has the potential (and I believe he will) turn out to be the best two way player on the Raps.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:55 PM   #99 (permalink)
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JV has looked beastly in the U19 tournament.. except for when he got posterized by Patrick Young (but he's completely dominated him in the 2 games).. that wasn't a good look for him at all lol but Young does have a grown man's body.
Lol young is just returning the favor since JV embarrassed him during their first meeting.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:56 PM   #100 (permalink)
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My take on it, DD is not good enough and has not done enough to have allegedly displayed a prima Dona attitude like that. JV has the potential (and I believe he will) turn out to be the best two way player on the Raps.
I guess. I cut him some slack in my mind, like I said, I'm pretty sure he had a few buddies in the top 5 that he would have liked.

Its a natural reaction. If JV is good, he'll be happy.
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