Some of the players were "quite put off" by the selection of JV? - Page 3

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Old 07-04-2011, 08:28 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Sorry LX, but how racist is entirely the wrong word? Being racist not necessary means hate. If you say, all Asians look a like or all jews good at math, you being racist... Colangelo really loves Bargs style of play like that, there is a concern he drafts another Bargs clone? Thats why some people though Val is like Bargs? Not because he is white Euro? I dont think so... Some players may never saw Jeremy Tyler play, but if Toronto was selected him, do they though - oh no, another Bargnani... Course not. Hell, even if Jonas was Euro, but BLACK, Im pretty sure no one would though he is like Bargs...

If someone in the world though he is new Andrea, it's because he is white Euro. It's racist. And such a tweets as #Helladopename" are extemely racist and offensive. WTF is that, is your teammate who say this?
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:42 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MARTYNAS View Post
And such a tweets as #Helladopename" are extemely racist and offensive. WTF is that, is your teammate who say this?
Martynas, this is an example of a popular culture communication gap.

"Dope" is not the same as "a dope"

As in "yo, that song is dope". That's positive. The person likes the song.

As in "Geez, that kid is a dope". That's negative.

"hella dope name" is positive. It means Amir thinks the name is cool. He is attributing the character of being "dope" to the name.

If Amir said "hella dopey name", that would be negative. Because it would mean he was attributing the name to a person who is a dope.

Being "dope" is different from being a dope.

Those kids and their slang!
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:48 PM   #43 (permalink)
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lmaoo yea hella dope means he thinks its super cool haha
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:51 PM   #44 (permalink)
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There's just as much evidence that JV will be anymore then a 10th man off the bench.
They're all projects.
There are very few NBA ready players that get drafted, let alone be able to start and be productive.
So, if that's the case then why be 'put off'? My point is that if they're put off over the fact that he's a project, then really how many players aren't projects. I think you just proved my point tbh.


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Ya, must hate DeRozan, Davis, etc etc.
I don't blame them either, pretty safe to say they can watch people play and know what they'll be at an NBA level over time.
I'd rather trust the players more then the GM's half the time.
Why would I hate the players?

As for if they know they'll be at an NBA level over time. Michael Jordan, one of the greatest of all time has been a terrible talent evaluator.

RC Buford meanwhile, never played ANY NBA ball, but has been the GM of one of the most successful NBA franchises in the past 15 years.

Having an eye for talent, is just that, a talent. You don't need to be an NBA player to see who can play, some people just have that talent. Again, a lot of NBA players don't make the best decisions.
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:55 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Oh, hella dope is good... Ok...
haha
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:27 PM   #46 (permalink)
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a lot of us here were put off with the pick at first (myself included) but cooled off after a couple hours
The players probably see the pick as a positive now too
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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a lot of us here were put off with the pick at first (myself included) but cooled off after a couple hours
The players probably see the pick as a positive now too
+1
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:49 AM   #48 (permalink)
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There was something written once about how GMs often overcomplicated the draft - this whole smarter than thou thing - they're going to swing for the fences and take, what they think, is the home run draft pick - and show everyone how smart and ballsy they are...meanwhile 9 times out of 10, if they just took the safe pick, they'd have a winning team of good players.

Jonas might end up being the best player in the draft, but he also might end up being the next Araujo. By the way, it should be noted - this was the same logic that made Bargnani the number 1 overall pick in the draft - over Aldridge, etc.

The players were excited to get Knight or Walker. Excited because they play against NBA players and they know what it takes. Knight/Walker are going to be solid players by all accounts. In this situation, it was perhaps the best idea to appease the players and take the safe pick. Walker/Knight and DeRozan could have been a great back court.

I'm excited about Jonas, but I understand the sentiment on behalf of the players.

Also, to discount fan and player reaction as xenophobic and ignorant is just too easy. I'm sorry to point out of the obvious, but count the number of successful white euro centres with your fingers... how many hands does it take? how many were true FRANCHISE players? Sabonis, Divac were great... franchise players? Not sure. Doesn't mean Val won't be excellent...
YES. Couldn't have put that any better myself.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:01 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DrFunk3385 View Post
There was something written once about how GMs often overcomplicated the draft - this whole smarter than thou thing - they're going to swing for the fences and take, what they think, is the home run draft pick - and show everyone how smart and ballsy they are...meanwhile 9 times out of 10, if they just took the safe pick, they'd have a winning team of good players.
Often scouts and GMs can't even agree as to who is the "safe" pick. One man's safe pick is another man's gamble. It's true that there have been some dumb selections at lottery picks, but more often there is genuine disagreement at to who should go where, because drafting can be difficult at times.

Safe can be defined as "ready to play minutes immediately" or "the consensus" pick (and probably a couple of other ways), so I think the "safe pick" may actually have been made.

Other teams wanted to trade up to get Val. And if his buyout had not been a question mark, some thought he could go in the top 3 or 4. In that regard, he is, arguably, the safe pick. It's not the GM trying to be ballsy and seem smart. It's a pick based on some tangible evidence and a projection of progress that numerous other scouts also identified.

That's why I find your post kind of ironic. Val could be viewed as the "safe" pick. He destroys the competition when he plays people his own age. One could argue it would be a lame attempt to look ballsy and seem "smart" if you passed up a player like that, for Kemba or Knight.

I do think Colangelo showed balls, but for a different reason: he made the consensus pick, which has a greater chance of benefiting the franchise in a signifcant way, despite the fact that his job is on the line and he could get fired before he ever gets to see Val make his significant contribution.

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By the way, it should be noted - this was the same logic that made Bargnani the number 1 overall pick in the draft - over Aldridge, etc.
Bargnani was not viewed as a consensus pick for the #1 spot. That was debatable amongst scouts. Many other teams did not have Bosh already (jump shooting PF), and thus probably would have chosen Aldridge. Regardless of the fact that I sometimes defend the Bargnani selection (it could have been worse), I recognize that Bargnani was not the clear cut BPA choice.

However, that is MUCH different logic than the selection of Val. The vast majority of scouts had Val rated higher than Walker and Knight. It's a different situation. It's closer to the logic used to pick Ed Davis. Due to a wild card variable (missed playing time in Ed's case - buyout in Val's case), both players slipped further than expected and were scooped up.

Val's situation is also different than Arujao, in that regard. Nobody had Arujao going that high. It wasn't surprising when haffa failed to live up to 8th pick. But Val, like Ed, is believed by many to be a legit talent.

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The players were excited to get Knight or Walker. Excited because they play against NBA players and they know what it takes.
Young players don't have much credibility with evaluating talent. They haven't even seen themselves develop to their fullest yet, so they are hardly in a good position to judge others based on future potential. What vets can really play? I bet they know a fair amount about that.

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Walker/Knight and DeRozan could have been a great back court.
Maybe. Or maybe it would be no better than Bayless and Derozan, which would mean the pick is a waste if used on either of those guards.

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I'm sorry to point out of the obvious, but count the number of successful white euro centres with your fingers... how many hands does it take? how many were true FRANCHISE players? Sabonis, Divac were great... franchise players? Not sure. Doesn't mean Val won't be excellent...
This comment gets a thumbs down for several reasons.

1 - Franchise players are rare in general. No scouts have projected Kemba or Knight to be franchise players. The goal posts are in the wrong spot.

2 - The game has changed. In the past 10-12 years, since euros have been coming over in significant numbers, there have been few really good centers drafted at all. Forget euros. No geographic region is producing multipe franchise centers. That's why PF types like Gasol, Duncan and Amar'e sometimes get placed at the center position on the All-NBA teams.

What all-nba team centers (real centers) have been drafted in the past 12 years? Dwight? Bogut? Yao? Horford? Look at that, two of them are foreign! And if you expand the list to just quality centers capable of starting, you see that a fair number of them a foreign dudes. GMs should be looking everywhere for talent. North America, Asia, Australia, Africa, South America and, yes, Europe. Lots of good centers are foreign.


BTW, if we look at bigs in general, there have been some very good euro big men.

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Old 07-05-2011, 03:42 AM   #50 (permalink)
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This is too silly. And there's a flip side. It's like saying Kleiza would have ran amok and shot children had the Raps not drafted Jonas. Or maybe it's not like that at all. Nevertheless, enjoy Steven Segal shooting children.

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Old 07-05-2011, 09:31 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Haverchuck, that post alone is reason enough to visit this forum.

Great job..... and the Val - Davis logic is bang on.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:15 AM   #52 (permalink)
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If this is the logic the safest pick would have been Walker. A leader and a champ who carried his team bigtime.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:21 AM   #53 (permalink)
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If this is the logic the safest pick would have been Walker. A leader and a champ who carried his team bigtime.
If we were looking for a backup point guard, then yes, Kemba would've been the safe pick.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:23 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Kemba barely 6 feet tall, he was not that impressive in drills and pre draft workouts to say the least. Kemba is question mark just like everyone else. Why everyone loves that guy? because of the few NCAA games? thats crazy, he is Bayless' clone...
Jonas is a bigger leader and champ than Kemba. Dominating junior champs 4 straight years, won 2 golds and 2 MVP's is no better than college ball? I beg to differ...
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:39 AM   #55 (permalink)
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The kid has a few years experince in UCONN and just won the NCAA championship, carried the team all the way. it proves something. btw He was measured 6'1. Is he in the same level of CP3, D-Will ? Probably not, but he could be as good as Rondo but better scorer than Rondo, or Tony Parker, who is a better passer than Kemba.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:00 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Kemba barely 6 feet tall, he was not that impressive in drills and pre draft workouts to say the least. Kemba is question mark just like everyone else. Why everyone loves that guy? because of the few NCAA games? thats crazy, he is Bayless' clone...
Jonas is a bigger leader and champ than Kemba. Dominating junior champs 4 straight years, won 2 golds and 2 MVP's is no better than college ball? I beg to differ...
If you're talking US college ball against Junior champs, I'll take US college ball all the time. I get that international games are very competitive, but the best young prospects play in US college ball. Doesn't the international games get all our rejects. Players undrafted or cut from NBA teams. Kemba on an unranked Division 1 team, won the Maui Classic, Big East Tournament, and the NCAA tournament.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Kemba barely 6 feet tall, he was not that impressive in drills and pre draft workouts to say the least. Kemba is question mark just like everyone else. Why everyone loves that guy? because of the few NCAA games? thats crazy, he is Bayless' clone...
Jonas is a bigger leader and champ than Kemba. Dominating junior champs 4 straight years, won 2 golds and 2 MVP's is no better than college ball? I beg to differ...
Walker will be a great player, not to mention that Knight was still available.
We could have picked Knight and trade him + a filler or two for a decent C who can impact right away.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:30 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Walker will be a great player, not to mention that Knight was still available.
We could have picked Knight and trade him + a filler or two for a decent C who can impact right away.
What C would have been available for so cheap? Easier said than done, considering numerous sources have been saying Colangelo has been chasing a C for two years.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:31 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Walker will be a great player, not to mention that Knight was still available.
We could have picked Knight and trade him + a filler or two for a decent C who can impact right away.

really? i'd love to know what impact big you think we could have obtained for knight and filler.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
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really? i'd love to know what impact big you think we could have obtained for knight and filler.
Knight had more value than Jonas, I don't know if it is due to the buyout or not. Most GMs thought Knight won't be available at 5th. Cavs with Thompson and the Jazz with Kanter changed the whole thing. I don't think our pick is bad, but we are not gonna have the impact we all wanted.
Sacramento wanted Knight, we could have tried and get Samuel Dalembert in a package.
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