Some of the players were "quite put off" by the selection of JV? - Page 2

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Old 07-04-2011, 12:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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A little part of me is worried that when JV comes over we might see another "lockerroom division" with JV, Bargs, Kleiza, Jose on one side and the rest of the guys on the other.

It's pure speculation and paranoia I'll admit.... but I can't shake the feeling after seeing what went on here with Hedo.
all he has to do is come in with that swag and posterize people, and play hard defense. When they see intensity, work ethic, hustle and he can play i dont really think that division will be there. He doesnt seem like hes a tool or a person which would be hard to get along with in the locker room either
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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That I can understand but bringing in Bargs and 'soft Euro' label and attributing that to some players is completely conjecture based on what some 'fans' are feeling.

For the record, I like Bargs' skill set, I just feel he's been mismanaged from the get go.
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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all he has to do is come in with that swag and posterize people, and play hard defense. When they see intensity, work ethic, hustle and he can play i dont really think that division will be there. He doesnt seem like hes a tool or a person which would be hard to get along with in the locker room either
It's not necessarily that I think he'll be an ass.... it's just that I think he'll probably have much more in common with the other euros on the squad and may not make as much of an effort to hang with the other American players.

Just worried about total team cameraderie I guess.... it kind of sucks because we lack that dominant personality in the lockerroom to keep everyone on the same page.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 07-04-2011 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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There was something written once about how GMs often overcomplicated the draft - this whole smarter than thou thing - they're going to swing for the fences and take, what they think, is the home run draft pick - and show everyone how smart and ballsy they are...meanwhile 9 times out of 10, if they just took the safe pick, they'd have a winning team of good players.

Jonas might end up being the best player in the draft, but he also might end up being the next Araujo. By the way, it should be noted - this was the same logic that made Bargnani the number 1 overall pick in the draft - over Aldridge, etc.

The players were excited to get Knight or Walker. Excited because they play against NBA players and they know what it takes. Knight/Walker are going to be solid players by all accounts. In this situation, it was perhaps the best idea to appease the players and take the safe pick. Walker/Knight and DeRozan could have been a great back court.

I'm excited about Jonas, but I understand the sentiment on behalf of the players.

Also, to discount fan and player reaction as xenophobic and ignorant is just too easy. I'm sorry to point out of the obvious, but count the number of successful white euro centres with your fingers... how many hands does it take? how many were true FRANCHISE players? Sabonis, Divac were great... franchise players? Not sure. Doesn't mean Val won't be excellent...
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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There was something written once about how GMs often overcomplicated the draft - this whole smarter than thou thing - they're going to swing for the fences and take, what they think, is the home run draft pick - and show everyone how smart and ballsy they are...meanwhile 9 times out of 10, if they just took the safe pick, they'd have a winning team of good players.

Jonas might end up being the best player in the draft, but he also might end up being the next Araujo. By the way, it should be noted - this was the same logic that made Bargnani the number 1 overall pick in the draft - over Aldridge, etc.

The players were excited to get Knight or Walker. Excited because they play against NBA players and they know what it takes. Knight/Walker are going to be solid players by all accounts. In this situation, it was perhaps the best idea to appease the players and take the safe pick. Walker/Knight and DeRozan could have been a great back court.

I'm excited about Jonas, but I understand the sentiment on behalf of the players.

Also, to discount fan and player reaction as xenophobic and ignorant is just too easy. I'm sorry to point out of the obvious, but count the number of successful white euro centres with your fingers... how many hands does it take? how many were true FRANCHISE players? Sabonis, Divac were great... franchise players? Not sure. Doesn't mean Val won't be excellent...
The next Araujo? The guy was like a senior playing at BYU.... it's not even worth comparing them. Age, body composition, skillset, character issues.... all very different.

Also, remember, Bargnani was also selected over Tyrus Thomas.... who was also considered for the top pick.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:13 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Also, to discount fan and player reaction as xenophobic and ignorant is just too easy. I'm sorry to point out of the obvious, but count the number of successful white euro centres with your fingers... how many hands does it take? how many were true FRANCHISE players? Sabonis, Divac were great... franchise players? Not sure. Doesn't mean Val won't be excellent...
OK - now Martynas would very much excused for making his point, even if we're still talking racialist thinking as approached to systematically oppressive racist thinking. To specifically judge an individual based on what a group does as a race is veering towards exactly what you are saying should not be used as an easy explanation. I hope to hell that fans do not consider how many white euro centers were successful as some kind of meaningful way of looking at talent, and I'm glad to see that you point out the stupidity of such thinking by stating that Jonas can be excellent.

If you are suggesting that anyone in this draft needs to be a franchise player in order to make any of the picks the right ones, then I'm not sure what you're looking at, and I would suggest that Jonas has as good a chance as anyone in this draft of getting there. I'm not sure what is meant by a franchise player in any case.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I think Amir, Bargs, Ed and Reggie were put off just as much as anyone else if not more.


Their playing time in the frontcourt will be decreasing, when he arrives. They know atleast one of them has to pack their bags pretty soon. One MORE actually, with Reggie. Too many PF's.
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:31 PM   #28 (permalink)
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None of these players on this team are good enough to judge other players right now.

I'm kinda disappointed in this news and really if true, shows the immaturity of the players.
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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i think the thing they're most put off by is that right after both casey and BC made it really obvious that they're targeting top FA centers
its 1 thing to draft a big, if the guy is the top player on the board you have good reason to draft him, regardless of position
but the fact that right after that they say they want another big, that's what would tick me off
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:32 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DrFunk3385 View Post
There was something written once about how GMs often overcomplicated the draft - this whole smarter than thou thing - they're going to swing for the fences and take, what they think, is the home run draft pick - and show everyone how smart and ballsy they are...meanwhile 9 times out of 10, if they just took the safe pick, they'd have a winning team of good players.

Jonas might end up being the best player in the draft, but he also might end up being the next Araujo. By the way, it should be noted - this was the same logic that made Bargnani the number 1 overall pick in the draft - over Aldridge, etc.

The players were excited to get Knight or Walker. Excited because they play against NBA players and they know what it takes. Knight/Walker are going to be solid players by all accounts. In this situation, it was perhaps the best idea to appease the players and take the safe pick. Walker/Knight and DeRozan could have been a great back court.
Fully agree with this.
You don't want to ignore this team that's in the works, otherwise they'll just bolt asap.
Both Knight and Walker would have been welcomed to the team.
I don't think JV will.
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:36 PM   #31 (permalink)
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There's a lot of assumptions here that both Knight and Walker would've been able to contribute right away, but there's ZERO evidence to support that notion. Knight seems to be as a big of a project as JB and Walker has alot of questions to answer whether or not he can play at this level.

I'm glad players aren't GMs.
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:37 PM   #32 (permalink)
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There's a lot of assumptions here that both Knight and Walker would've been able to contribute right away, but there's ZERO evidence to support that notion. Knight seems to be as a big of a project as JB and Walker has alot of questions to answer whether or not he can play at this level.

I'm glad players aren't GMs.
agreed

it was well documented that when we drafted bosh, VC was pretty put off by it, thought we didn't need that type of player, but a strong built big man like sweetney

well where is that guy now and where is bosh, all Bosh hate aside
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Really, the guys who may have had these reactions are guys I probably don't want to play with or want on this team.

Ignorance like this just drives me crazy.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:17 PM   #34 (permalink)
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if you're put off it probably means you're worried about your play time being cut, if you're worried about that then it means you don't think you're much better than a draftee, which says a lot about your game and your confidence
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:34 PM   #35 (permalink)
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There's a lot of assumptions here that both Knight and Walker would've been able to contribute right away, but there's ZERO evidence to support that notion. Knight seems to be as a big of a project as JB and Walker has alot of questions to answer whether or not he can play at this level.

I'm glad players aren't GMs.
There's just as much evidence that JV will be anymore then a 10th man off the bench.
They're all projects.
There are very few NBA ready players that get drafted, let alone be able to start and be productive.

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Really, the guys who may have had these reactions are guys I probably don't want to play with or want on this team.

Ignorance like this just drives me crazy.
Ya, must hate DeRozan, Davis, etc etc.
I don't blame them either, pretty safe to say they can watch people play and know what they'll be at an NBA level over time.
I'd rather trust the players more then the GM's half the time.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:46 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I think there is a point here that is being missed. Even DeMar said that "It's just this year only and they just need to get through this season" (of losing)

So now they all expect that no matter what, this off season, an influx of talent is coming. Help is on the way....piece #1 is the draft pick.

Then they see a guy picked who is not only an unknown to them, but even if he is any good....he's not coming now!?! Of course they are going to start wondering how they are going to get any better.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:23 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Sabonis personally trained this kid. I'd been hearing about him for a couple years. I know he was on the Blazers target list.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Then they see a guy picked who is not only an unknown to them, but even if he is any good....he's not coming now!?! Of course they are going to start wondering how they are going to get any better.
I doubt that a lottery prospect was unknown by guys that live and breathe basketball. They probably don't watch the European game but NBA players are certainly aware of the incoming draft class, American and overseas. For what it's worth I think Sonny Weems and Demar Derozan are in Spain at Calderon's basketball camp.

The pick couldn't of just come out of the blue. If anything certain Raptors may have stereotyped a European player's game: soft, perimeter shooter, poor rebounder... traits that do not represent Valanciunas. It also doesn't help that Jonas is quite skinny. At the end of the day he's just 19 and he has broad shoulders to fill out eventually.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:39 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I doubt that a lottery prospect was unknown by guys that live and breathe basketball. They probably don't watch the European game but NBA players are certainly aware of the incoming draft class, American and overseas. For what it's worth I think Sonny Weems and Demar Derozan are in Spain at Calderon's basketball camp.

The pick couldn't of just come out of the blue. If anything certain Raptors may have stereotyped a European player's game: soft, perimeter shooter, poor rebounder... traits that do not represent Valanciunas. It also doesn't help that Jonas is quite skinny. At the end of the day he's just 19 and he has broad shoulders to fill out eventually.
There are guys in the NBA who cannot tell you a thing about some guys in the NBA hall of fame. Guaranteed. You're talking about guys who live next door to Canada, have TV's and have seen the Blue Jays playing in their stadium, the Raptors playing in their arena, the Maple Leafs in theirs, the world basketball championships were here and still they don't know a thing about Toronto until they get here. There is a lot of introspection. You are American, or you are "foreign".
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:52 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Amir Johnson seem to like it...

He tweeted "Valenciunus! #Helladopename" or some next stuff..
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