Some outside perspective....
Old 03-31-2010, 11:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Although we all come here to post I'm sure that there are more than a few of us who are active at more than 1 bball site.

At times it's nice because you get a little outside perspective from NON-Raps fans.

Here are a couple of posts from EBSports from a SAC fan and a HOU fan that I found pretty interesting.....

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I can see why Mike doesn't think Bosh is a franchise player, but at the same time, I think that term is way overused and really should be labeld on only a select few.

Bosh isn't a superstar, but, I think he's on the level right below them...a premier All-Star level type, if you will.

To be fair, the NBA has moved into more of a guards game the past few years, especially with the size of some of these young guys and the way they call the game....so it looks like the league is moving away from the Shaq, Duncan, KG, Webber, etc type big men and moving into the Rose, Lebon, Wade, Evans, type...power with speed.

Wade's never done much for the Heat, record wise that strikes me as impressive when he didn't have Shaq there. They've always been a .500 type team, which isn't his fault, but, it just shows one guy can only do so much.

I don't see Bosh as part of the problem...the Raps just missed the boat on the AB pick. That really hurt. And then BC trying to what he could to keep Bosh in town, backfired with the Hedo signing.

I don't think you want to let Bosh walk for free though. You have to be careful what you get as a return, you don't want an overrated, highly paid player who isn't a franchise player...but, there are some pieces in Toronto that could be bait, like Jose.

I really would explore a trade with a team with a high pick and some young talent. I don't think it's as easy for Bosh to turn down money as some others do.

Quote:
Eh, I'm more inclined to believe that the reason the Raptors are failing this season has more to do with the fact that the players on the team don't work well with each other. A few years ago, Bosh was on a team with TJ Ford and a rookie Bargs and they won 47 games.

Yes, they got knocked out in the first round and yes Bosh only averaged 23 and 11 that year, which doesn't put him on the same tier as Wade and Lebron and them. But the point I'm trying to make is that you can't just point out that his team this year has talent, but still sucks and blame it all on Bosh. Sometimes you can have all the talent in the world and still be a crappy team because the players don't fit.

There are three examples of teams people might argue are as talented as the Raptors, and fit the same "superstar + a few solid role players" makeup that Toronto does: Oklahoma City, Miami, and Cleveland. Each team is succeeding (some more than others obviously), and it all comes down to one thing: defense. The superstar on each of these teams handles most of the duties on the offensive end, but as a team they play good defense. OKC, Miami and Cleveland are 6th, 7th and 8th in defensive efficiency. Toronto is dead last in the league.

We can argue whether or not Bosh is as good as the 3 stars on those teams (which is a completely different issue really), but it's not his fault that his team sucks. He's not the reason that team is the worst defensive team in the league.
Pretty bang on IMO.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Bang ON! lmao...
summary: The most talented teams don't always necessarily win, the team must fit.. bang on!
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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need a coach
or we hope for Triano to transform into one
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Windex View Post
need a coach
or we hope for Triano to transform into one
WANTED: NBA Head Coach

REQUIREMENTS: Must be able to make shit shine.

please submit resumes to headcoachvacancy@torontoraptors.com
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by XiaominWu View Post
WANTED: NBA Head Coach

REQUIREMENTS: Must be able to make shit shine or have the equivalent combination of motivational expertise and testicular fortitude.

please submit resumes to headcoachvacancy@torontoraptors.com
fixed...
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think alot of those perspectives you do find here and hell I think I've written a few things similar to that and I know I have read it.

The problem where I disagree with a few of you is I do see talent on this squad. Alot of good talent. The problem with that talent is that you have Bosh as an "A" guy and Bargnani as a "B" guy but who's the "C" guy. Our two front line players have established themselves but we have a boat load of guys who would be great 6th men. And therein lies the problem. The talent is there but we're missing talent where if teams are focusing on our two bigs no one can step up consistently and do it.

So on a whole, talent wise, we're there, but in a specific department we're missing it (hope that makes sense).

Also, I'm of the belief that everyone on that roster is culpable for the piss poor defensive efficiency rating. Bosh, Bargnani, Jack down to POB and Rasho, over to BC, Micah Nori and Jay Triano. There's no philosophy anywhere. Actually, the philosophy is commit to defense when it's too late. So that's an organization issue which needs to be addressed.
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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While we're looking at out side perspectives, here's an Magic fan's.

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Don’t get me wrong, Turk did great for the Magic (on occasion), but his performance was blown some what out of proportion when the Magic reached the finals. His performance in the playoffs was subpar with a couple of clutch shots. We all knew that Turk playing on a .500 ball club would expose him as a player. He’s not that great of a player. He never was in sacramento, nor the spurs. He played at his peak during the 07/08 season and had a run of timely shots in last years playoffs. I may be bias cuz I was never a fan of his.
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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We just need one more player that can play both the PG+SG part and we are fine I hope? Can we try to land CP3?
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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^We could. I dont know if he feels the same way now but earlier this season he was really frustrated with this team and publicly stated that he could possibly be traded.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Sam's 47 wins looks pretty damn good now. I remember how so many people refused to give him any credit. But it goes beyond the coaching. They really haven't caught a lot of breaks the last few years.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think the author of this thread was vehemently opposed to Sam
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
I think the author of this thread was vehemently opposed to Sam
I was. And I won't shy away from what I said back then.

I still feel that while Sam was very good motivator.... he was NOT a very good coach.

As LX said, A LOT of things broke just right for us the year that Sam won COTY.

We had Ford, AP and Garbo on the perimeter who were all capable of keeping their man in front of them and sticking open shots. We haven't had a perimeter lineup that strong since then (except maybe with our new lineup).

I can't give Sam NO credit at all..... that would be wrong.... but that was a year where we had some pretty good talent that was brought in by BC.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
I think the author of this thread was vehemently opposed to Sam
Shit - I had actually forgotten that.
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:38 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
While we're looking at out side perspectives, here's an Magic fan's.
if you are looking at outside perspectives i can find many other Magic fans(this guy is a hater ,i can find neither haters nor homers ) who says opposite of this one...

and also i can find outside perpectives about Raptors fans which are absolutely right for me

Last edited by HeDoes; 04-01-2010 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
While we're looking at out side perspectives, here's an Magic fan's.
......but his performance was blown some what out of proportion when the Magic reached the finals. His performance in the playoffs was subpar with a couple of clutch shots.
He is talking about the top scorer of the team in the NBA finals series against the Lakers, ahead of D.Howard and everybody else. Van Gundy said Hedo took them to the finals. Yet this guy says his performance was subpar. And he adds he is biased, he is not a fan of Hedo. It's self explanatory.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:54 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I was. And I won't shy away from what I said back then.

I still feel that while Sam was very good motivator.... he was NOT a very good coach.

As LX said, A LOT of things broke just right for us the year that Sam won COTY.

We had Ford, AP and Garbo on the perimeter who were all capable of keeping their man in front of them and sticking open shots. We haven't had a perimeter lineup that strong since then (except maybe with our new lineup).

I can't give Sam NO credit at all..... that would be wrong.... but that was a year where we had some pretty good talent that was brought in by BC.
It also had to do with the fact that that year the Eastern conference was very weak and riddled with injuries.
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Chemistry is totally an issue, and its really one move that ruined the mix, Turkoglu. He hasn't jived with Calderon or the team as a whole on the court.

Bosh is a 20-12 guy on a very good team with other guys that can consistently play (IMO the Raps don't have another consistent player, other than maybe Jack), his stats are definetly inflated being far and away the best option on this team.

Bargnani wasn't and isn't a terrible pick in that draft. There are only two other guys in the top 10 of that 06 draft that are equally or more productive, Roy (6th) and Rudy Gay (8th). The 9th overall pick, POB, is glued to the bench. Only Roy and Rajon Rondo have made the all-star team out of the first round of that draft. Bargnani is just frustrating because he has all the tools, but is so inconsistent. In retrospect, a Roy-Bosh combo probably gets this team to the conference finals, but Roy would have been a huge reach at #1 overall on draft day 2006.

This team has the talent, but is missing the intangibles, the Garbo, Oakley, what Reggie Evans was supposed to be type guys and also a consistent 2nd option on the wing, as the one guy said, it is more of a guard league, a by-product of zone defences. You need a guy who can shoot the 3, slash to the basket or hit a jumper. The Raps don't have a perimeter scoring presence, and they are wasting money on Turkoglu who is supposed to be that guy, but either can't or doesn't want to be, maybe both. DeRozan and Weems can slash, but cannot consistently shoot well enough to be a threat. Wright is the most average player in all respects except personality. A solid perimeter scoring presence would probably be worth 10 wins to this team, if not more.
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