rodstriker

Turkoglu really screwed up the Raptors. He brings a nice ballhandler, good shooter, really tall guy, but his money makes us lose Marion and Delfino. Turkoglu is not a big upgrade over Marion, but losing AP, Carlos and maybe Pops is something we could have never afford losing. The difference between Delfino and Douby.... No words to describe it. We could have signed Kleiza (now we have no money), and Kleiza >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graham or any shit guy we sign

The only way to get quality players is S&T these guys

Marion - Cleveland, Orlando, SA, maybe Denver...
Delfino - Cleveland, Orlando, New York, Denver, Dallas, Houston (we could work out a deal that sends us Von Wafer for a cheap price), New Orleans, Miami
AP - Cleveland or Boston (he'll go overseas)

What do you guys think about it? Is there any way we could sign AP or delfino? Our 2 guard position is now a rookie that'll take 3 years to be great and Quincy Douby...

insight_tor

I still don't get it ... how can you sign and trade somebody if you have no cap space after you sign Hedo? Isn't BC trying to avoid luxury tax?
I.E. If you sign and trade Marion, you would have to get back somebody making close with Marion new salary. The same goes for others.

bladeraptor

i think that bc has already got some S&T deals well in the works because he mustve realised that getting turk would leave us quite messed up (i.e more work for him to sort it out) thus to re-stabalise the organization he will get some deals done soon.

'trane

listen guys - you can re-sign your own players (for whom you have bird rights) to go over the cap. you can even do this after you've renounced them. we have until july 7th to s&t any of these guys and we can go over the cap to do so. joey, delfino, ap, marion, pops... all these guys can be re-signed and traded before july 7th. as long as we stay under the lux tax, we're fine, and any expirings we get to balance out the deals will be gone next year. none of this is a big deal. we still have assets, we still have wiggle room and we still have opportunities to increase the talent on the bench.

if you're going to wring bc's neck for this move, learn something about the cba first... or at least read the quality articles that are out there that have explained all of this already. all of this info is available in the threads here on rf if you do any reading before you start complaining.

this place is making me sick today. it really is.

Ligeia

Sigh......

Marion, Delfino, and AP all have cap holds against the salary cap. To eliminate this cap hold, you renounce the players, which is a formal announcement of your intent to not re-sign these players.

So suppose Colangelo doesn't renounce these players, but first sign-and-trades them. Will we get any players back? If so, their salaries will count against the cap, eliminating money to spend on Turkoglu.

Or suppose Colangelo renounces all the players. This leaves money to sign Turkoglu, but we can no longer re-sign Delfino, AP, or Marion unless it is under the Bi-Annual Exception or Vet minimum.

We can't sign our old players (even if it's for the purpose of a trade) and sign Turkoglu; it has to be one or the other.

Now that is ironic. Read Article VII section 4 part g of the CBA.

Formless

Von Wafer is an UFA

Admiral

this is true, we have a ton of guys that are our own FAs so we have potentially a lot of movement still available
and nobody said that we couldn't just go over the cap, although there's like less than a 1% chance of that

Ligeia

Guys, you cannot sign and trade AP, Delfino, Marion, and also sign Turkoglu, unless you do not get any players back from the AP, Delfino, Marion trades, in which case we're right back at square 1. Once you go below the cap, you can only spend up to the cap plus Bi-Annual Exception plus any Minimum contracts. You cannot re-sign your old FA's after you've renounced them unless you use one of the exceptions or you have the cap room.

'trane

yes, actually, until july 7th we can sign and trade players that we have renounced.

Ligeia

And what will we get in return?

Windex

possibly players

Formless

Assets

Ligeia

Worth how much?

If you sign-and-trade these players to another team, and get any salary back, you can't sign Turkoglu.

Gurk

You might get a pick back

Windex

all I know is
wait for July 7th when some of these signings become official

Ligeia

Right, so how does a pick help us fill out the bench?

The only idea I can think of is to sign-and-trade one of the players for a pick and a trade exception (since we wouldn't be able to take on any salary). After signing Turkoglu, we could possibly then flip the pick and the trade exception for a player, but that will require a bit of hustling on BC's part.

Windex

BC is a hustler

rodstriker

Link: Carlitos a Orlando?

they say Delfino could be Orlando bound...

Maybe we could get JJ Redick? (much smaller deal)

Gurk

I think well do a sign and trade. Delfino for Turk

Bmats7

Would LOVE Redick here. Can knock down the 3, reasonable defender and is not a bonehead.

I think he's a slight improvement over delfino actually (debatable) so I dont think Orlando would do this.