So let's S&T Delfino and Marion
Old 07-04-2009, 01:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default So let's S&T Delfino and Marion

Turkoglu really screwed up the Raptors. He brings a nice ballhandler, good shooter, really tall guy, but his money makes us lose Marion and Delfino. Turkoglu is not a big upgrade over Marion, but losing AP, Carlos and maybe Pops is something we could have never afford losing. The difference between Delfino and Douby.... No words to describe it. We could have signed Kleiza (now we have no money), and Kleiza >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graham or any shit guy we sign

The only way to get quality players is S&T these guys

Marion - Cleveland, Orlando, SA, maybe Denver...
Delfino - Cleveland, Orlando, New York, Denver, Dallas, Houston (we could work out a deal that sends us Von Wafer for a cheap price), New Orleans, Miami
AP - Cleveland or Boston (he'll go overseas)

What do you guys think about it? Is there any way we could sign AP or delfino? Our 2 guard position is now a rookie that'll take 3 years to be great and Quincy Douby...
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I still don't get it ... how can you sign and trade somebody if you have no cap space after you sign Hedo? Isn't BC trying to avoid luxury tax?
I.E. If you sign and trade Marion, you would have to get back somebody making close with Marion new salary. The same goes for others.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i think that bc has already got some S&T deals well in the works because he mustve realised that getting turk would leave us quite messed up (i.e more work for him to sort it out) thus to re-stabalise the organization he will get some deals done soon.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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listen guys - you can re-sign your own players (for whom you have bird rights) to go over the cap. you can even do this after you've renounced them. we have until july 7th to s&t any of these guys and we can go over the cap to do so. joey, delfino, ap, marion, pops... all these guys can be re-signed and traded before july 7th. as long as we stay under the lux tax, we're fine, and any expirings we get to balance out the deals will be gone next year. none of this is a big deal. we still have assets, we still have wiggle room and we still have opportunities to increase the talent on the bench.

if you're going to wring bc's neck for this move, learn something about the cba first... or at least read the quality articles that are out there that have explained all of this already. all of this info is available in the threads here on rf if you do any reading before you start complaining.

this place is making me sick today. it really is.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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listen guys - you can re-sign your own players (for whom you have bird rights) to go over the cap. you can even do this after you've renounced them. we have until july 7th to s&t any of these guys and we can go over the cap to do so. joey, delfino, ap, marion, pops... all these guys can be re-signed and traded before july 7th. as long as we stay under the lux tax, we're fine, and any expirings we get to balance out the deals will be gone next year. none of this is a big deal. we still have assets, we still have wiggle room and we still have opportunities to increase the talent on the bench.
Sigh......

Marion, Delfino, and AP all have cap holds against the salary cap. To eliminate this cap hold, you renounce the players, which is a formal announcement of your intent to not re-sign these players.

So suppose Colangelo doesn't renounce these players, but first sign-and-trades them. Will we get any players back? If so, their salaries will count against the cap, eliminating money to spend on Turkoglu.

Or suppose Colangelo renounces all the players. This leaves money to sign Turkoglu, but we can no longer re-sign Delfino, AP, or Marion unless it is under the Bi-Annual Exception or Vet minimum.

We can't sign our old players (even if it's for the purpose of a trade) and sign Turkoglu; it has to be one or the other.

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if you're going to wring bc's neck for this move, learn something about the cba first... or at least read the quality articles that are out there that have explained all of this already. all of this info is available in the threads here on rf if you do any reading before you start complaining.

this place is making me sick today. it really is.
Now that is ironic. Read Article VII section 4 part g of the CBA.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Von Wafer is an UFA
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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this is true, we have a ton of guys that are our own FAs so we have potentially a lot of movement still available
and nobody said that we couldn't just go over the cap, although there's like less than a 1% chance of that
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Guys, you cannot sign and trade AP, Delfino, Marion, and also sign Turkoglu, unless you do not get any players back from the AP, Delfino, Marion trades, in which case we're right back at square 1. Once you go below the cap, you can only spend up to the cap plus Bi-Annual Exception plus any Minimum contracts. You cannot re-sign your old FA's after you've renounced them unless you use one of the exceptions or you have the cap room.

Last edited by Ligeia; 07-04-2009 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yes, actually, until july 7th we can sign and trade players that we have renounced.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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yes, actually, until july 7th we can sign and trade players that we have renounced.
And what will we get in return?
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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And what will we get in return?
possibly players
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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And what will we get in return?
Assets
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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possibly players
Worth how much?

If you sign-and-trade these players to another team, and get any salary back, you can't sign Turkoglu.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You might get a pick back
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Worth how much?

If you sign-and-trade these players to another team, and get any salary back, you can't sign Turkoglu.
all I know is
wait for July 7th when some of these signings become official
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Right, so how does a pick help us fill out the bench?

The only idea I can think of is to sign-and-trade one of the players for a pick and a trade exception (since we wouldn't be able to take on any salary). After signing Turkoglu, we could possibly then flip the pick and the trade exception for a player, but that will require a bit of hustling on BC's part.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Right, so how does a pick help us fill out the bench?

The only idea I can think of is to sign-and-trade one of the players for a pick and a trade exception (since we wouldn't be able to take on any salary). After signing Turkoglu, we could possibly then flip the pick and the trade exception for a player, but that will require a bit of hustling on BC's part.
BC is a hustler
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Link: Carlitos a Orlando?

they say Delfino could be Orlando bound...

Maybe we could get JJ Redick? (much smaller deal)
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I think well do a sign and trade. Delfino for Turk
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Link: Carlitos a Orlando?

they say Delfino could be Orlando bound...

Maybe we could get JJ Redick? (much smaller deal)
Would LOVE Redick here. Can knock down the 3, reasonable defender and is not a bonehead.

I think he's a slight improvement over delfino actually (debatable) so I dont think Orlando would do this.
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