So how's every feeling about Mr. Golden Boy
Old 04-05-2009, 06:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default So how's every feeling about Mr. Golden Boy

Brian Colangelo these days?

I know for a little while there was a bit of an "off with his head" type movement broiling up.

His decision to draft and then hang onto Bargs for such a long time seems like it was an excellent choice.

The Marion trade was looking like a bit of a stinker at first but sure enough the Raptors have won 6 games in a row.

Mitchell was canned and Triano seems like he is handling himself ok behind the bench.

In hindsight can we say that despite the current record, are we in good hands?

Do you have faith in Colangelo still?
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Adding douby and pops for close to nothing has been good for us.
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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As a BC detractor I'll come out and say that he's done a good job of correcting his "initial mistakes".

Drafting Bargs was a good move (although if I could go back I still might take Roy).

Adding Pops was a nice find.

Trading JO for Marion is proving to be a brilliant move.

Keeping Jose over TJ is looking more & more like the right move (IMO).


THIS off-season will be the ultimate test for BC though.... it'll be interesting to see how things go. I hope as smoothly as these last 6 games.
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Never lost it.

I will be the first to admit that I doubted Bargs and have been proven wrong. But even when I thought he was a blown pick, I still had faith in BC overall. Any GM can draft a player who doesn't turn out as expected. Now that Bargs is doing well, the pick looks quite good and I was quite wrong to doubt it.

BC's a good GM because he thinks laterally, is aggressive, and takes risks. He's willing to trade for both relative unknowns like Garbo and AP, and high-risk/reward big-name players like JO and Marion. I also think that his league-wide name recognition helps us draw players to Toronto who might not otherwise want to come.

I have every confidence that Colangelo will make positive moves this summer and put us, at the very least, back in the playoffs this time next year. I also feel comfortable with his ability to handle the Bosh situation, whether it be via a contract extension or by trading him for substantial value.

That said, I do worry about BC's apparent penchant for fast-break basketball. While it might get us to the playoffs, people who know more than me seem to think that it probably won't get us that deep. It does seem like we've taken some steps in that direction, especially if both Triano and Colangelo remain with the team.
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I wondered if he was actually following a plan. Now I'm confident that he is again, but that this season has been little more than a circuitous route of getting Marion. I'm sure he hoped to get more out of JO, but really only as a means of dealing from a position of greater strength. If he makes up for a lost season for the long term, then I guess he has a chance of being tinged with a bit of gold.
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
Adding douby and pops for close to nothing has been good for us.
How does he re-sign them though? They have no bird status and the Raptors are way over cap. They can sign one for around $2mil using the bi-annual exception but what about the other? They can use the MLE but that should be going to a starting 2 unless they think douby is that 2...
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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No one should ever say he should have taken Roy instead of Bargs because not one person ever even came close to mentioning the thought of picking Roy first. You cant say it was a mistake because its completely hypocritical. I'm not directing this at TOR as it is a completely different point he made but I just think its ridiculous how many goofs say this stupid shit when they themselves thought picking Roy 1st would ruin the franchise because they thought he was too injury prone, robotic, not athletic enough, whatever.

In regards to the job BCs done, he got us in the playoffs two years running. Its just too bad our two best penetrators played the same position and our best perimeter defender broke his leg in half. If we still had Garbo we wouldnt have this depth problem, and we wouldnt be as bad on defence but thats just the way it is. Its hard to build your team back up when you lose your best penetrator in Ford in such a perimeter driven league.

This offseason will be the defining moment for Brian as the Raptors GM. I dont think Bosh will demand out like many think he will, and if he doesnt, BC has to build a really good team around him and fast for him to want to stay next offseason. He has to get a SG/SF that can create and play defence, fill out his bench with good role players, and possibly even have to fill out the starting SF spot too as I dont think Marion will be back nor do I want him back as a Raptor.

And he has to do all this with the pieces he has, which isnt much to be honest. He really may have to decide who he sees is more important and a better choice as 'franchise guy'(even though neither of them are, but you get the point) in Bargs or Bosh. If he thinks Bosh will bolt or he just wants to go in a different direction with Boshs value being so high, we'll likely be in the rebuilding stage again and fans like myself will go nuts. But if he makes what IMO is a good decision in looking to trade his golden boy Bargnani, we can get a lot of talent back to build around Bosh and take a big step in becoming a really good overalll team. A lot of things are going to factor in that decision if it indeed has to be made, though I think theres a slim chance it will have to be made because BC loves both and wont be willing to give one up unless unforseen circumstances come into play.

And thats how I feel about the situation going into the offseason. In terms of grading him so far, I'd give im a B-.

PS re signing Douby long term isnt that great of a move. Hes a dime a dozen scrub.
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thriller92 View Post
No one should ever say he should have taken Roy instead of Bargs because not one person ever even came close to mentioning the thought of picking Roy first. You cant say it was a mistake because its completely hypocritical. I'm not directing this at TOR as it is a completely different point he made but I just think its ridiculous how many goofs say this stupid shit when they themselves thought picking Roy 1st would ruin the franchise because they thought he was too injury prone, robotic, not athletic enough, whatever.

In regards to the job BCs done, he got us in the playoffs two years running. Its just too bad our two best penetrators played the same position and our best perimeter defender broke his leg in half. If we still had Garbo we wouldnt have this depth problem, and we wouldnt be as bad on defence but thats just the way it is. Its hard to build your team back up when you lose your best penetrator in Ford in such a perimeter driven league.

This offseason will be the defining moment for Brian as the Raptors GM. I dont think Bosh will demand out like many think he will, and if he doesnt, BC has to build a really good team around him and fast for him to want to stay next offseason. He has to get a SG/SF that can create and play defence, fill out his bench with good role players, and possibly even have to fill out the starting SF spot too as I dont think Marion will be back nor do I want him back as a Raptor.

And he has to do all this with the pieces he has, which isnt much to be honest. He really may have to decide who he sees is more important and a better choice as 'franchise guy'(even though neither of them are, but you get the point) in Bargs or Bosh. If he thinks Bosh will bolt or he just wants to go in a different direction with Boshs value being so high, we'll likely be in the rebuilding stage again and fans like myself will go nuts. But if he makes what IMO is a good decision in looking to trade his golden boy Bargnani, we can get a lot of talent back to build around Bosh and take a big step in becoming a really good overalll team. A lot of things are going to factor in that decision if it indeed has to be made, though I think theres a slim chance it will have to be made because BC loves both and wont be willing to give one up unless unforseen circumstances come into play.

And thats how I feel about the situation going into the offseason. In terms of grading him so far, I'd give im a B-.

PS re signing Douby long term isnt that great of a move. Hes a dime a dozen scrub.
The whole Garbo incident was a terrible move. They should have kept him since they were stuck with his salary on the books anyways.

You'd keep Bosh who's often injured, can rarely make plays when he gets double teamed, and is a free agent after this year; but trade Andre who hasn't hit his prime yet and is still learning new skills? Somehow you figure Bosh will leave if Andre stays but Bosh will stay if they trade Andre and rebuild. Strange concept.

BC's doing what he should with the end of the bench. He's trying to find gems in the weeds. Douby, Banks, Pops... Trying them out to see who's worth keeping.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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BC > all of us
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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No kid'n. Even if we know all the rules and quite a lot of us don't or choose to ignore them he has several advantages like having a ton of advisors and knowing exactly who's available on each team and if those teams have any interest in his players.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I know all the exceptions and where they're at in terms of the cap and the tax; that stuff is easy. What isn't as easy is reading the value of players in the league in terms of dollars and in terms of trade-value; who is willing to move what for what? And what are those personal attributes of a player that play a big role in scouting, that a fan can't tell from a distance? We don't see players day to day, where you see the intricacies of how they interact, an important part of chemistry.

There's a lot to assess there, and that's why no one bats 1.000. However, BC's history leaves me with a great deal of confidence, and it's the exact reason he was brought here in the first place. You can't be Executive of the Year every season.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You'd keep Bosh who's often injured, can rarely make plays when he gets double teamed, and is a free agent after this year; but trade Andre who hasn't hit his prime yet and is still learning new skills? Somehow you figure Bosh will leave if Andre stays but Bosh will stay if they trade Andre and rebuild. Strange concept.
I dont think Bosh+Andrea= wins. Defence wins especially in the East, and theyve proven on defence anyway that its not going to work. My thinking is we can trade Bargs for the guard/forward we need and possibly get a good vet bench player back in the trade as well.

And at least Bosh GETS double teamed. Will we ever say the same for Andrea? Do you really think he'll ever reach Boshs level? And whos to say Bosh has reached his peak already? What is he now 25? Hes arguably not even hit his prime yet.

With really good players around Bosh, the doubles will come less frequently and if they do come he'll have better options to pass out to that can actually make a play with the ball. We still havent seen what can we constituted as a contender around Bosh yet. We as fans take his talent for granted. Mark my words if he does leave or we do trade him and then Bargs becomes the guy, he wont even reach the level where fans are all over him even though he posts a 20 10 game, thats when you know youre one of the better players in the game, but yet get criticized because you're losing with a bad team. And then in 4 yrs or less fans will run him out of town too. The cycle needs to stop. Is it too much to ask that we become a consistant playoff team for multiple years, now, what, 14 years into its time in the NBA?

Quote:
BC's doing what he should with the end of the bench. He's trying to find gems in the weeds. Douby, Banks, Pops... Trying them out to see who's worth keeping.
Pops is the only one out of that group who has any potential to become a rotation player. Banks had one good half of a season, the rest of his career hes been a really poor mans Lindsay Hunter. Wow, he can pressure a guy at the halfcourt line. Impressive. Can he hit a jumpshot with any consistancy? Can he dribble better than your average player? Can he run an offence? Can he even pass the ball to an open target?

And Douby is the same thing, except his only talent is shooting which he has barely even shown he can do vs NBA talent. A poor mans Dixon. Wow.

BC needs to go out and get real players this offseason. No excuses. He promised us improvement and a plan where we'd end up a contender in a few years and yet we've taken a huge step back. He better make us a winner next year.

Last edited by Ball Don't Lie; 04-06-2009 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Thrills... re: the Roy thing... It was a weak draft year where ANY of the top 5 could have gone #1. Roy had an NBA-ready body and game. That much was clear after watching him in the NCAAs. And given the fact that we already had a big man in Bosh and lacked a great SG I don't think that anyone would have blamed him for making that pick. It isn't like Roy was some unknown 2nd round pick that just exploded on the scene. Everyone knew he was going to be good.

If people can still go back and criticize Babcock for choosing Joey over Granger (same situation with the injury concerns) then it should be the same thing now no?

All that being said Bargs has surpassed my wildest dreams. He's def. not embarassing himself and is justifying the faith that BC put in him.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thats the thing though, almost no one had Roy slated as a top 5 pick, they all had him 7-10. And it was more than injury concern with him. You dont have dazzling athleticism or are really tall and could be a force youre not going to be picked 1st. There were many concerns he wasnt athletic or quick enough and that his game wouldnt translate. Thats what I remember anyway. I dont remember one person that had him in their top 5 draft board even.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:31 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I think he's got a lot to prove going into the offseason.

He made a lot of moves that to be successful were dependant on a lot of gambles panning out, which none have.

Last edited by Acie; 04-06-2009 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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What I'm going to be looking at most closely, is how he improves this team defensively, or whether that is even a focus for him. If this team can improve on that end, then it will take a step forward.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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This off season is BC's final exam
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Old 04-06-2009, 03:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Defence wins especially in the East, and theyve proven on defence anyway that its not going to work. My thinking is we can trade Bargs for the guard/forward we need and possibly get a good vet bench player back in the trade as well.
Bosh isn't that good on defense and Bargs is still improving so I don't see how giving up Bargs helps on D.

Andre gets double teamed when he posts up. He just doesn't post up as much as Bosh.

Andre is ranked in the top 3 centers in the nba for the last couple months and still improving. He'll pass Bosh's level.

Bosh is 25 and has bad knees. How long do you expect him to last?

If they trade Andre leaving Bosh and a bunch of outside shooters with no support rebounding. They've done that for years without any success because Bosh can never feed the open man. His assists per game are pitiful compared to other players at his scoring level. Then what happens when Bosh leaves after next season? They have a bunch of outside shooters, no rebounding and no inside presense? oh yay... 1st pick here we come...

The starting lineup is reasonable with the killer B's. They need a better 2 guard and a much better bench. They could have easily won last nights game if the bench could score and give the starters some rest.

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Pops is the only one out of that group who has any potential to become a rotation player.
I agree. Even then, Pops has shown he can play against bad teams. Not so great against average / good ones. I'd still add him though because he at least tries.

I'd give douby a few more games. He's shown some quickness and defensive awareness at times even if he doesn't score or play team defense very well at this point. Not saying he's going to be good. But maybe 9th or 10th on the bench. Don't really know yet.

Banks should be dumped anyway BC can come up with.

Quote:
BC needs to go out and get real players this offseason. No excuses. He promised us improvement and a plan where we'd end up a contender in a few years and yet we've taken a huge step back. He better make us a winner next year.
It should be pretty obvious that Andre is part of BC's plan after he's stuck with him for so long so he's staying. Bosh will be gone if BC thinks he won't re-sign otherwise expect to see. Jose - ? - Marion - Bosh - Andre to start.

If you could compare starting lineups versus bench scoring I bet you'd find a lot of games were lost because the bench sucked. Signing a better #2 and moving parker to 6th man should help. Problem is finding a decent #2.
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Old 04-06-2009, 03:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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BC is having his worst year record wise, but sometimes theres more to just winning and losing and thats Andrea Bargnani developing which is bigger than geting killed in the playoffs by the Celtics,Magic, and Cavs,

where close but we need a couple of moves to put us over the top, we need a sg or sf that consistently finish and get fouls just so we have two types of ways of ringing up fouls and geting easy baskets at the line

its really that simple another star in the SG or SF spot will completely change the dynamic of the team

and honestly to all of the posters who hate BC, tell who we can find that can do a better job and has more credibility in the league than BC
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Old 04-06-2009, 04:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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you can't fault BC for drafting Bargs instead of roy because clearly he wasn't the only Gm that thought other players were better than roy in the draft and he hadn't shown himself to be clearly better than everyone else in that class as even aldridge on his own team was draft a head of him and you can talk even more trash if you wanted to about the wolves who traded him for foye and nobody said that was a mistake either at that point
and saying we needed a PG and should've drafted roy is not a good reason because BC knew he would take charlie v and get ford for him which is why he would take Bargs who plays a better big man style than charlie v who plays more of a SF style and he knew he was going to get AP as our SF anyways
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