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jeffb 09-26-2012 07:23 PM

SN: Raptors on the cusp?
 
Quote:

A year ago, it was tough to be a fan of the Raptors as even before the opening tip-off it was pretty clear that Toronto was not making the playoffs.

But that was then and this is now according to team president and general manager Bryan Colangelo.

"Our goals and target has changed this year," Colangelo told sportsnet.ca on Wednesday. "Last year again, was very much about building and that meant that as much as we wanted to win, building entails allowing players to grow on the court and in real time.

"This year, the target has changed, our objective has changed and our goal is to make the playoffs. I'm not saying we're going to make the playoffs but we're certainly going to be in the fight as that stretch run occurs."

The spotlight is set to shine even brighter on Colangelo and company as an NHL lockout has left the Maple Leafs on the sidelines. The Raptors boss is relishing the opportunity to showcase his squad this winter.

"I hate the fact that hockey is in the situation that they are in," Colangelo said. "But I love the fact that we will be the beneficiary of some of that."

Colangelo is well aware that the extra attention could be a double-edged sword. If the Raptors play well, fans will tune in; should the team perform poorly, they risk turning away those new fans permanently. But Colangelo believes that the additions to the roster will help keep the team competitive and the fans interested.

"I think we've got a chance to have a really special unit, chemistry-wise, that might possibly be able to achieve more than they might just based on talent alone."

Of course, Colangelo should be painting a bright, rosy picture of his team heading into the new season but it will take a lot of dominoes falling into place for this team to have a realistic opportunity to push for a playoff spot.

One of the team's major offseason acquisitions was Kyle Lowry, who will share time at the point guard spot with incumbent Jose Calderon. The Spanish veteran was one of the team's better players a season ago and head coach Dwane Casey will need to figure out how the pieces fit together.

"I think as it is, we've got two great point guards and I think the fact that we've got both of them in a situation where they're going to be able to play together and work together and sometimes be on the court together -- I think it bodes well for what we've got," Colangelo said.

Many believe that Calderon could be traded before the season is over as he only has one year remaining on his contract. The Raptors' biggest weakness last season was at small forward and if they were to allow Calderon's contract to expire, that cap space could also be used to fill that spot on the roster next summer.

Colangelo said he listens to all offers and weighs them on how they would make the franchise better.

"We constantly look for ways to make this team better and if the right deal comes along regarding any player on our team, I've got to listen and I've got to look at it strategically and try to make the right decision," he explained.

"Don't think for a minute that there's not a moment in any day that I am not thinking about a way to make it better."

Nielsen on NBA: Raptors on the cusp? - sportsnet.ca

LX 09-26-2012 08:20 PM

Ok. I officially despise all this talk about Jose and Lowry being on the court together. It's like it's been decided already in order to placate Jose. To me that means there s already a pg controversy. You put the best guys on the court to win games. You don't fiddle with rotations to placate. That is going to fuck over the whole change in the culture. I'm sure Jose will have nights where he gets a good load of minutes. And if he can truly make it work playing alongside Lowry, then great, but all this fucking talk like it will happen no matter what, when it's not exactly worked with Jose and anyone else, is just one horrible déjà vu. Stop making it sound like it's a positive rather than the problem that it obviously is you lying piece of shit. Handle this properly and don't put it on the coach to look like an ass.

jeffb 09-26-2012 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 683806)
Ok. I officially despise all this talk about Jose and Lowry being on the court together. It's like it's been decided already in order to placate Jose. To me that means there s already a pg controversy. You put the best guys on the court to win games. You don't fiddle with rotations to placate. That is going to fuck over the whole change in the culture. I'm sure Jose will have nights where he gets a good load of minutes. And if he can truly make it work playing alongside Lowry, then great, but all this fucking talk like it will happen no matter what, when it's not exactly worked with Jose and anyone else, is just one horrible déjà vu. Stop making it sound like it's a positive rather than the problem that it obviously is you lying piece of shit. Handle this properly and don't put it on the coach to look like an ass.

Well, you knew this was going to happen. I mean we've all seen this movie before. I said this over the summer, there is no avoiding a 3rd PG controversy. And the only way to get away from it is trading Jose. He sees himself as the starter and on many teams he would be but BC didn't give up a lottery pick, say that Lowry was our PG of the future who is getting the keys to the car just to have him coming off the bench. Casey wanted added toughness and we went out and got one of the toughest best defensive PG in the NBA so if he doesn't start all season if healthy (even if he gets off to a slow start to the season) then i throw my hands up tbh and i have to question what we're really trying to accomplish here.

Luckedout 09-26-2012 08:44 PM

Where is the PG controversy? Jose has come off the bench before, Jose is older and has said interviews that he understands that there will be competition and he's happy to be in Toronto and knows what Casey wants from him. Fans and the Media are the only ones stirring up the controversy. Its like you guys want for there to be controversy, because the only thing ive been hearing from Raptor staff is what a professional and team player Jose is and will continue to be for as long as he remains a raptor.

We have one of the best if not the best pg combo in the NBA let's be happy with that and look at the positive instead of trying to find something negative that might not even exist.

jeffb 09-26-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckedout (Post 683817)

We have one of the best if not the best pg combo in the NBA let's be happy with that

We've said that before

Luckedout 09-26-2012 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 683821)
We've said that before

we also made it to the playoffs.. and we wouldnt have been able to do that without two solid pgs. and as i recall correctly Jose outplayed TJ and thats when the controversy started... Jose is not going to outplay Lowry so theres no need to even worry about another controversy like that. Jose is fine with being a back up.

moremilk 09-26-2012 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 683806)
Ok. I officially despise all this talk about Jose and Lowry being on the court together. It's like it's been decided already in order to placate Jose. To me that means there s already a pg controversy. You put the best guys on the court to win games. You don't fiddle with rotations to placate. That is going to fuck over the whole change in the culture. I'm sure Jose will have nights where he gets a good load of minutes. And if he can truly make it work playing alongside Lowry, then great, but all this fucking talk like it will happen no matter what, when it's not exactly worked with Jose and anyone else, is just one horrible déjà vu. Stop making it sound like it's a positive rather than the problem that it obviously is you lying piece of shit. Handle this properly and don't put it on the coach to look like an ass.

not sure you're right, most coaches love playing two pg together, if at all possible, especially teams that lack shot creators, but not only. Dallas, Minesotta, Clippers , OKC do it quite frequently and are far from being alone. There are a lot of advantages offensively from doing that and as long as you can get away with it on defense, we'll see that a lot, especially at the end of close games.

Lowry is undersized, but he's so tough that he could definitely defend some 2s (guys like harden/westbrook or terry/lee or billups etc) if necessary.

The reason it never worked for jose is because he was never paired with a good defensive PG before. Ford was an ok defender, but you could never ask him to guard a 2 of any size. Lowry gives you more flexibility in that respect.

moremilk 09-26-2012 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 683810)
Well, you knew this was going to happen. I mean we've all seen this movie before. I said this over the summer, there is no avoiding a 3rd PG controversy. And the only way to get away from it is trading Jose. He sees himself as the starter and on many teams he would be but BC didn't give up a lottery pick, say that Lowry was our PG of the future who is getting the keys to the car just to have him coming off the bench. Casey wanted added toughness and we went out and got one of the toughest best defensive PG in the NBA so if he doesn't start all season if healthy (even if he gets off to a slow start to the season) then i throw my hands up tbh and i have to question what we're really trying to accomplish here.

I'm not buying this argument either, jose vs jack and jose vs tj were very civilized (and productive) competitions. The fans may have gotten carried away taking sides, but on the court (and off the court in the public realm) there were no "controversies". And in both cases we got great production at the PG spot. I'm sure Jose is not thrilled, but he's always been a true professional and he will handle it just fine.

But that's not even all that relevant, it's like having a controversy between paul and billups, lowry is clearly the better player, nobody (except maybe jose and his die hard fans) is disputing that. Lowry was confirmed as the starting point guard the moment he got traded for and that was that.

jeffb 09-26-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 683850)
I'm not buying this argument either, jose vs jack and jose vs tj were very civilized (and productive) competitions. The fans may have gotten carried away taking sides, but on the court (and off the court in the public realm) there were no "controversies". And in both cases we got great production at the PG spot. I'm sure Jose is not thrilled, but he's always been a true professional and he will handle it just fine.

But that's not even all that relevant, it's like having a controversy between paul and billups, lowry is clearly the better player, nobody (except maybe jose and his die hard fans) is disputing that. Lowry was confirmed as the starting point guard the moment he got traded for and that was that.

It's not even about the PG's themselves, but really it was about the media more than anything, they constantly brought it up making it a distraction each time and imo none of them ended well. I understand bringing it up and asking question say right now but once the season starts and there is a starter chosen it should deminish but it never did. Jose would go down, Ford or Jack would come in and play well and when Jose would come back the questions would start again. The media in this city is like a dog without a bone. I still say Jose wants out even now, but he will be as he always has been a professional. I just hope Lowry comes in and lights it up and we get off to a good start otherwise no mater what the questions will start.

LX 09-26-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 683848)
not sure you're right, most coaches love playing two pg together, if at all possible, especially teams that lack shot creators, but not only. Dallas, Minesotta, Clippers , OKC do it quite frequently and are far from being alone. There are a lot of advantages offensively from doing that and as long as you can get away with it on defense, we'll see that a lot, especially at the end of close games.

Lowry is undersized, but he's so tough that he could definitely defend some 2s (guys like harden/westbrook or terry/lee or billups etc) if necessary.

The reason it never worked for jose is because he was never paired with a good defensive PG before. Ford was an ok defender, but you could never ask him to guard a 2 of any size. Lowry gives you more flexibility in that respect.

Yeah - I don't want to rule it out completely and could see it being more feasible, but does that need to be advertised before they see a second of real action?

There are enough backcourts that are difficult to defend as a tandem, and I'm not convinced of the offensive advantages if it ends up being like a square peg. Yes, the option should be there, and if it works at all it could become a part of the regular rotation. Last I checked, deciding on what options make the most sense and how to use them, is the job of the coach, not something pre-ordained by the GM before camp even starts, in order to placate. This is not unlike the situation where Bargnani was posited as a 3 in order to smooth over that square peg. The GM should be the GM and put together a team with pieces that fit within the overall culture, and leave the coach to do his job. The meddling needs to stop.

LX 09-26-2012 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckedout (Post 683817)
Where is the PG controversy? Jose has come off the bench before, Jose is older and has said interviews that he understands that there will be competition and he's happy to be in Toronto and knows what Casey wants from him. Fans and the Media are the only ones stirring up the controversy. Its like you guys want for there to be controversy, because the only thing ive been hearing from Raptor staff is what a professional and team player Jose is and will continue to be for as long as he remains a raptor.

We have one of the best if not the best pg combo in the NBA let's be happy with that and look at the positive instead of trying to find something negative that might not even exist.

The controversy is in the meddling. The coach needs to be able to honestly decide who plays where and when and not try to force extra minutes here and there to satisfy a guy that looks like he's being demoted. You start doing that and the coach loses a good chunk of credibility and the gains made in the culture get lost. This line about sharing time is just ridiculous. It will sort itself out over time, and whatever works best as to improving the chances of winning will be what happens. The coach will decide on that based on player performances, and everyone will stand by that and work hard to win. Nothing more needs to be said. The fact that Bryan thinks more does need to be said is a very bad omen.

raptor123 09-26-2012 10:37 PM

Guys the pg spot was the least of our problems last season. Actually the pg spot was argubly our best position last year. Surrounding our cast around Jose and Andrea was the issue. I am not sure whether we will be any better this year. It all depends how the 2,3 and 5 spot play. We now have insurance at the pg spot with Lowry. Lowry is a little dog...little dogs play with the little dogs at the doggie park while Jose being the big dawg on the team plays with the big boys. Jose will help Lowry;s game. Jose with teach him how to play the pg spot and he will teach him how to be a team guy. Lowry they say is a pitbull....pitbulls are a little crazy and must be restrained....or even put down for the sake of the team.

jeffb 09-26-2012 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor123 (Post 683855)
Guys the pg spot was the least of our problems last season. Actually the pg spot was argubly our best position last year. Surrounding our cast around Jose and Andrea was the issue. I am not sure whether we will be any better this year. It all depends how the 2,3 and 5 spot play. We now have insurance at the pg spot with Lowry. Lowry is a little dog...little dogs play with the little dogs at the doggie park while Jose being the big dawg on the team plays with the big boys. Jose will help Lowry;s game. Jose with teach him how to play the pg spot and he will teach him how to be a team guy.

http://www.clickuntilyoulaugh.com/wp...507yu70371.gif

raptor123 09-26-2012 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 683856)

To your baby !!!!!


Luckedout 09-27-2012 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 683854)
The controversy is in the meddling. The coach needs to be able to honestly decide who plays where and when and not try to force extra minutes here and there to satisfy a guy that looks like he's being demoted. You start doing that and the coach loses a good chunk of credibility and the gains made in the culture get lost. This line about sharing time is just ridiculous. It will sort itself out over time, and whatever works best as to improving the chances of winning will be what happens. The coach will decide on that based on player performances, and everyone will stand by that and work hard to win. Nothing more needs to be said. The fact that Bryan thinks more does need to be said is a very bad omen.

I highly doubt Coach Casey is going to play players to make them happy or make BC happy or whatever, he'll play to win, he did that last year. I think he's just talking about playing them together now because a) its a definite possibility and b) to appease the media and Jose fans.

but Jose is our back up pg, Lowry is our starter i dont see any controversy.

moremilk 09-27-2012 01:31 PM

this argument is very strained. I don't know if BC/Casey are trying to prevent this so called "controversy" with their declarations, but ultimately, any knowledgeable fan wouldn't think for a second when choosing the starting guy. It's even irrelevant (to some extent) how they do in practice, lowry is clearly the superior player, therefore he's the starter.

This is as much a controversy as westbrook over harden. Both PGs, not THAT far apart in value, but one is clearly better and there's little chatter about who should start for OKC. It should be the same thing here, except Toronto media is very adept at stirring the pot ...

jeffb 09-27-2012 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 683933)
this argument is very strained. I don't know if BC/Casey are trying to prevent this so called "controversy" with their declarations, but ultimately, any knowledgeable fan wouldn't think for a second when choosing the starting guy. It's even irrelevant (to some extent) how they do in practice, lowry is clearly the superior player, therefore he's the starter.

This is as much a controversy as westbrook over harden. Both PGs, not THAT far apart in value, but one is clearly better and there's little chatter about who should start for OKC. It should be the same thing here, except Toronto media is very adept at stirring the pot ...

+1, 000, 000, 000

RAPMAN 09-27-2012 02:31 PM

The Raps were in alot of close games. They improved alot on the defensive end. The season will heavily rely on the offensive execution during crunch time. I wouldn't mind seeing Jose and Kyle on the floor together when a basket needs to be made when closing games. Two guys who create with the ball, and Jose is the best perimeter shooter as compared to the wing players available.


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