Smith: If the Raps fail next year, Colangelo could be shown the door

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Old 06-12-2010, 11:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Smith: If the Raps fail next year, Colangelo could be shown the door

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Q: Hey Doug, at what point do we hold Bryan Colangelo's feet to the fire? When will he be on the proverbial "hot seat"? In his defense (somewhat) he's never tried to do a re-build through the draft, I believe because of his initial success. Long question cut short(ish) if this off-season ends up with the Raptors coming out on the losing end will the big time decision makers allow Bryan Colangelo to try and re-build this team (through the draft or not)?

Bill V, Toronto

A: He’s on the hot-seat now. And it doesn’t matter how close you hold his feet to the fire, he knows what he’s up against and just because fans are clamouring for more success doesn’t mean he’s going to work harder. He’s worked to the best of his abilities since he got the job.

And if the Raptors go down in flames again this season with little appearance of improvement, I would imagine ownership might look long and hard at making a change.
LINK - Toronto Star
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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the issue i have with this line of thought is this:
If you fire Brian Colangelo, who are you going to replace him with thats BETTER and AVAILABLE?

And even if they are available, would they come here?
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Makes sense. I still say the success in the first season was a bad thing. It gave BC and the fans a false sense of how good we were. And then it was about adding through signings and not as much through the draft because we thought we were further along then we actually were.

Anyway, i also still say that BC will be signed on again after next season. Depending on what he does this season. And also if Bosh leaves this summer (which is likely) they may give him a couple more years just to see what he can do post-Bosh. I myself like most of what he's done and shutter at the thought of him not being here and Bosh being gone as well.

I say it's 70/30 he's re-signed next summer or sooner. As long as he wants to stay.

Last edited by jeffb; 06-12-2010 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Why is everyone expecting Raps to perform well next season? Our star player is gone, all we'll have is complimentary role players. If BC can conduct a proper rebuild then I wouldn't mind but if he keeps trying to retool, he should then be shown the door. Kevin Pritchard is available and is great at rebuilding.
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Old 06-12-2010, 02:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Why is everyone expecting Raps to perform well next season? Our star player is gone, all we'll have is complimentary role players. If BC can conduct a proper rebuild then I wouldn't mind but if he keeps trying to retool, he should then be shown the door. Kevin Pritchard is available and is great at rebuilding.
I'll agree with the Rebuilding but maybe not so much Prictchard. I really wouldn't mind keeping BC if he would be able to change his philosophy (ie rebuild) but thats not his make up and he'll problably just be shown the door. I'm dying for this team to rebuild. The beauty of it is it'll be a quicker process with only having like 3 bad contracts this time around. I'd love for it to happen
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Old 06-12-2010, 02:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Why is everyone expecting Raps to perform well next season?
I don't know why anyone would have any expectations either way, considering we don't know what's gonna be done this summer. Predict all you want but to have no expectations or high expectations are equally stupid. Too many factors here. Example: If we get Bynum for Bosh and he stays healthy and we can get an upgrade at PG why is it unfathomable that we do well next season? Nobody knows anything at this point.

Give it another month and then see what you think.
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Old 06-12-2010, 03:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Colangelo has an excellent ability to delegate and also listen to consensus opinion amongst his organization. His primary fault is in his desire to attract offensive minded soft players that have no desire or in most cases ability to do the dirty work in the defensive end.

If nothing else, championship teams and this years playoffs are proof, are built on equal parts offensive ability, defensive ability and player character which includes toughness, desire and killer instinct.

Very few teams have manufactured 100 points in any playoff game this season. So i ask how many times this season, did the Raptors hold the opposition to under 100 points? That is all you need to know to figure out why we usually have sub .500 win seasons.

I like Colangelo's ability to manage and procure roster changes, he just needs to change his philosophy towards what type of players win. Telling a coach to preach defence to an offensive laden roster is an exercise in futility. The horses and character required are just not there. They need to be brought in, he is most certainly capable of doing so. He has to make sure he brings in tough mentality, workhorse type players.

The Raptor fan base will chew up and spit out players that do not have, all out intensity. Turkoglu proved that this year!
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Old 06-12-2010, 03:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Fuck people on Real GM are acting as if the world is coming to an end.....lets chill the fuck out, see what happens over the next 3 weeks, and then we'll talk about this shit. I don't think we're nearly as screwed as some people think! In fact, I'm very optimistic, with or without Bosh.
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well a lack of success over 5 years, being a treadmill team, being in a poor cap situation, well yeah, he should be on a hot seat.

If a team shows no improvement over that span, then well yeah, you need to make a change.

As for people asking who would be better? God knows. See if Rod Thorn would be available or throw a ton of money at RC Buford.
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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kevin pritchard
:facepalm:
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
:facepalm:
And the most overused smiley continues to pester good discussion.

Why is Pritchard facepalm worthy? Last time I looked, both Portland and Toronto started 'rebuilding' at the same time. Take a look where we are and where they are. So tell me again. Why is he facepalm worthy?
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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And the most overused smiley continues to pester good discussion.

Why is Pritchard facepalm worthy? Last time I looked, both Portland and Toronto started 'rebuilding' at the same time. Take a look where we are and where they are. So tell me again. Why is he facepalm worthy?
Because when Colangelo's last year was picked up 4 months ago everyone was overjoyed (take a look at the thread announcing it). Now months later the season ended on a sour note due to several reason (imo the main one being Bosh missing a good chunk of the the last 6 weeks) and everyone's jumping off the Colangelo fan club. Then Pritchard is canned.......so fuck it let's get him.

Fans in this city fall in and out of love with players/coaches/management on an almost daily basis and it's :facepalm: worthy to say the least. First of all, BC is going nowhere for at least a year so..........


Posting (Kevin Ptrichard ) is far from being good discussion as you called it. Because he isn't coming here.
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Makes sense. I still say the success in the first season was a bad thing. It gave BC and the fans a false sense of how good we were. And then it was about adding through signings and not as much through the draft because we thought we were further along then we actually were.

Anyway, i also still say that BC will be signed on again after next season. Depending on what he does this season. And also if Bosh leaves this summer (which is likely) they may give him a couple more years just to see what he can do post-Bosh. I myself like most of what he's done and shutter at the thought of him not being here and Bosh being gone as well.

I say it's 70/30 he's re-signed next summer or sooner. As long as he wants to stay.
I'd say it's a lucky thing for BC or else he would just be a huge loser as a GM for the raptors!

2010: 40-42
2009: 33-49
2008: 41-41
2007: 47-35

Without that one year, Colangelo is looking pretty dismal, especially when you consider that we had Mr. Bosh.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'd say it's a lucky thing for BC or else he would just be a huge loser as a GM for the raptors!

2010: 40-42
2009: 33-49
2008: 41-41
2007: 47-35

Without that one year, Colangelo is looking pretty dismal, especially when you consider that we had Mr. Bosh.
But like jeff said that first season created a false sense of security around the organization. The Raps caught a lot of teams off-guard that year, I never felt they were as good as their record showed. I think management saw the team as more complete than they actually were, and they moved forward incorrectly when, like jeff said, they should have been stocking up on picks and building through the draft.

Who knows how this team would have developed had the first year been rough. BC may or may not have traded away those picks and we might be looking at a front-line of Bosh and Hibbert, just as an example.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'd say it's a lucky thing for BC or else he would just be a huge loser as a GM for the raptors!

2010: 40-42
2009: 33-49
2008: 41-41
2007: 47-35

Without that one year, Colangelo is looking pretty dismal, especially when you consider that we had Mr. Bosh.
Agreed
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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But like jeff said that first season created a false sense of security around the organization. The Raps caught a lot of teams off-guard that year, I never felt they were as good as their record showed. I think management saw the team as more complete than they actually were, and they moved forward incorrectly when, like jeff said, they should have been stocking up on picks and building through the draft.

Who knows how this team would have developed had the first year been rough. BC may or may not have traded away those picks and we might be looking at a front-line of Bosh and Hibbert, just as an example.
Shouldn't BC have known the roster is playing above the ability? If YOU knew it, HE should know it.

Futher to the point, if that team won by catching teams off guard shouldn't his "improved rosters" have still come close to that mark? They were 6 games worse the next year and dreadful after that.

Either you are putting too much stock in how many wins catching teams off guard count for or you're just looking for a free way out for colangelo.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The 47 win season was the most satisfying season for myself as a fan. Here's the thing - they were that good. They were actually likely better than that since they started off with a ton of losses before completely gelling.

I hear so much regret over what might have happened had Vince and Tracy stuck here. But for me it's all about Jorge and Jose. If those two could have stayed healthy and durable it would have made a huge difference down the line.

Here's where I think everything clearly went wrong beyond the injuries - Andrea Bargnani needed to go from that rookie year where the team was well-balanced and able to compete with or without Bosh, to a fairly bigger role in his next season, where the balance was not quite there. He failed, and the team became far too reliant on Bosh, and more dependent on a Jose that couldn't quite handle the bigger role either. And too much of what BC did or did not do from that point on centered on looking at Andrea and Jose settling into roles where they could take more of a load off Bosh. But as core pieces they could not fill their required roles over a full season.

This team desperately needed another player that could be counted on to fill a primary role for a full season. Bosh gets referred to as needing to be a Robin to someone else's Batman. It would have been nice to see if that could happen every once in a while over the last few seasons. But there was no 1 and 1a or 1 and 2 options set in stone. The closest thing to that was when TJ was here, but after BC's first year his role was altered to accommodate the expanding roles of Jose and Andrea, and his own unfortunate circumstances. And the two guys that were given more and more responsibilities, while doing a lot of good things, never managed to be as effective for this team as when less was required of them in that 47-win season.

They did not have more success than was warranted in Colangelo's first season. Colangelo simply failed to see what made that team a success. He needed to see that when it came to Andrea, Jose, and Bosh as well, that less was more. But he never got beyond those three guys in any way that there could be less reliance on them. Ultimately, one of them probably should have gone before now, since the sum of all three amounted to something less, not greater. It was just bad math. Colangelo has felt like he has something in Jose and Andrea that he can't let go of, and he's simply been wrong in thinking that, and as a result he's left Bosh with a greater load to carry than he ever should have had to deal with. Instead of trading one of the "core" pieces, he tried to add support through free agency, and making a bunch of deals with non-core players. That only meant adding to the mess that the core players already created. Having two integral starters unable to fulfill their roles consistently is just going to make it that much harder for any other players coming in to figure out their roles, let alone to fulfill them. And so for three years we have seen player after player being asked to do too much on any given night, to make up for the inconsistencies of two "future all-stars" that might have a hard time making the starting 5 of any team expecting to make the playoffs - especially if they come as a package.

Last edited by LX; 06-12-2010 at 07:28 PM.
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