Smith Fully Expects Marion To Go In a Sign-&-Trade
Old 04-22-2009, 10:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Smith Fully Expects Marion To Go In a Sign-&-Trade



Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Smith
What I get a hoot out of is people talking about the Raptors needing to make “substantial” change over the summer.

Let’s see here

A new starting two-guard (BC made it clear if Parker comes back, it’s off the bench)

A new starting small forward (I fully expect Marion to go in a sign-and-trade).

A new backup point guard (if that wasn’t clear from Monday’s BC event, I don’t know what is)

A top-10 draft pick who will – unless the pick is absolutely blown – be a swingman who’s in the rotation.

A new, or different, backup swingman, other than the rookie, be it a free-agent or someone who comes in a Marion sign-and-trade.

I would think the days of Pops Mensah-Bonsu as the first big off the bench are over so there’ll be another new backup four or five.


So, let’s see how that falls out:

That’s six new players in a nine-man rotation.

That’d be, what, 66.7 per cent turnover of the guys who play a lot?

And let’s even downgrade that one, to say that AP’s one of those guys off the bench. That’s still five guys entirely new in a nine-man rotation and one playing a different role.

Okay, let’s even say by some miracle of modern financial shenanigans, Marion’s back, too. That’s half your rotation (okay, four out of nine) that’s new.

That’s not “substantial” change?
Source - Doug Smith's Toronto Raptors blog
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:15 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Meh I'm still expecting the wings next year to be Delfino/Parker, Marion/Graham/Kapono, with the rookie fitting in somewhere there. If we're not blowing up that is.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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all depends on draft position
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm not even sure what point Doug is trying to make here...

Does he think it's substantial change or not? This guy is so standoffish...
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zachus22 View Post
I'm not even sure what point Doug is trying to make here...

Does he think it's substantial change or not? This guy is so standoffish...
I see plain sarcasm in his post. To me it's clear he's predicting substantial change...even quoting some large percentages in his roster turnover predictions.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Of course he will, also a good chance banks or kapono gets tied to him in the trade to make salaries work.

Question is what teams would like his services?

Atlanta-Cant see it with Marvin there
BOston-Has Pierce
Charlotte-Has Wallace
Chicago-Has Deng and Salmon-but maybe to cut salary in a Deng deal
Clevland-Cant see it with that lebron faella playing as their sf
Dallas-Possibly, but what could be brought back(Cant see a Howard trade ever being done)
Denver-Melo
Detroit-Prince
GS-Good Possibility, but for a player like Crawford and maybe pick or young player.(Belli)
Houston-Maybe if Artest leaves or MCGrady, slim at best though
Indy-Granger
Clips-Slim possibility on a Thorton/Marion swap
Lakers-If Odom goes maybe, but only role players at best would come back.
Memphis-Gay is there and they need more front court help, although Marion can play PF-Slim at best
Miami-Cant see them taking him back
Bucks-In a cost cutting move maybe, but the already have RJefferson
Minny-Cant see it
Jersey-What would come back, but I am sure they would love him
NY-WOuld probably like him, so a maybe
NO-Wouldnt get anything of value from them
OKC-Durant, Green=no chance
Orlando-Good possibility if Turk opts out. Would fit in very well there.
Philly-Iggy, Young
Phoenix-Probably
Portland-Yes, may be a good fit more Marion if comes fairly priced
Sacramento-Noccioni
San Antonio-Yes
Utah-Cant see it, unless it is to cut salary
Washington- no

So out of all of those:
GS-Marion for Crawford and Belli
LAC-Thorton, Pick for Marion, Pick, Hump
NJ-Marion, Kapono, Pick for Carter, Pick
NY-Maybe Robinson and a pick, ewwww.
Orlando-Marion for Pietrus and Alston
Phoenix-
Portland-Mabey something around a Marion/Webster deal
SA-
Utah-Around an AK Deal

Last edited by Claudius; 04-22-2009 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Snooch View Post

So out of all of those:
GS-Marion for Crawford and Belli
LAC-Thorton, Pick for Marion, Pick, Hump
NJ-Marion, Kapono, Pick for Carter, Pick
NY-Maybe Robinson and a pick, ewwww.
Orlando-Marion for Pietrus and Alston
Phoenix-
Portland-Mabey something around a Marion/Webster deal
SA-
Utah-Around an AK Deal
Sometimes I think you live in your own make-believe land.

Why does LA do that deal? Thorton is still on his first contract - and he's miles better than Marion.

No way jersey does that deal because they're only looking for expirings, not for players who are going to have longer contracts than Carter.

Orlando for Pietrus and Alston? I can't see Alston coming back here for a third time to be a backup to Calderon. And Pietrus is a good fit on Orlando. Why should they trade him here? Because you want him here?

Portland deal doesn't make sense - The guys that were being discussed going to Portland were better players than Marion (Carter, Jefferson - I have no idea why you refer to him as RGay - the fact you do for cheap laughs is pretty pathetic). Besides, they have Outlaw, who can do just a good a job.

San Antonio I can't see the Spurs making a play for him - the salaries on that team don't exactly match up well with ours.

I can't see the Jazz making a play for Marion. He's 4 years younger, plays just as good D. Marion just seems as one of those guys who isn't a Jerry Sloan type of guy, and probably wouldn't enjoy Utah's off the court extra-curricular activities.

Phoenix? For the last time, I don't think you read other people's posts, so I'll spell it in caps for your benefit : PHOENIX AND TORONTO WILL NOT BE TRADING PARTNERS FOR A FEW REASONS: 1 - THEY'RE TRYING TO CUT SALARY, 2 - MARION AND STOUDEMIRE DO NOT GET ALONG 3 - SARVER DOES NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH BRYAN COLANGELO
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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They were all hypothetical possibilities, and LAC was the only one that was really stretched in our favour.

Vince has 3 years left on his deal, Marion in signing a new contract could have the third as a team option, so to say that his contract will be longer than VC's is foolish, it could be longer, it man not be.

Marion had been discussed going to Portland as well last season.

SA would no doubt like him, but they have nothing to offer.

And if hedo opts out(rumoured) they will need a replacement at SF, and Lee has been raising alot of eyebrows with his play as of late as well and there is no doubt management wants to play him more and more(or at least that is the reports I have read and heard) Pietrus is expendable to them, especially if they need to get a new sf with no pick. Rafer was for filler, it could just as easily be Foyle or Battie added to Pietrus' contract.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think Snooch's suggestions were alright except.. I don't think phoenix will take him.. and even though I love him.. I don't think Vince is coming back.

Marion wants to go somewhere to win a championship. He might go to LAL if they don't win this year and Ariza leaves, Houston if Artest leaves, Orlando if Turk leaves, San Antonio maybe, Utah (Deron williams is not a typical Utah player either, but they'd love marion's defence, rebounding and fast break ability), NO.

that's all I see in it, and who he gets traded for we can barely speculate, it might even be a 3-way deal.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.....Deron Williams is not a typical Utah player?

Insanity.

Tough hard nosed defender, knows how facilitate the pick and roll offence, lays his heart out on the line, can switch speeds. Not a typical Utah player. Hilarious.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Sorry I meant by the way he dribbles and makes passes with flash so unlike John Stockton. I would consider Brevin Knight more of a Utah Pg. Chris Paul does all the things u mentioned above and is arguably a better defender than williams, but I don't think paul is a Sloan-type PG either.

But my main point was that marion would be a good fit there.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to Utah. Honestly. Sorry.

And if Marion wouldn't be a good fit there. AK47 does all the things Marion does and has better range and, wait for it, is younger.

Sheed would be a better fit in Utah because of his range and his pedigree.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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marion is a better defender against smaller players (kobe for example). while both are sf/pf, marion is a better SF than AK. And having range is the worst thing for AK, who is really a bad shooter. At least marion knows his weakness.

I think the main problem is that AK is a bad fit for us, since we need somebody who can defende 2s and 3s, not 3s and 4s.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to Utah. Honestly. Sorry.

+1 million
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think Portland could be a likely destination. They do however have around 9 million dollars in cap space next summer so they can outright sign him without facilitating a sign and trade and giving up anything.

Looking at that list, it just reinforces how low Marion's value is going to be this summer. I still think anything more than the MLE is overpaying him, especially if it's a long term deal.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
marion is a better defender against smaller players (kobe for example). while both are sf/pf, marion is a better SF than AK. And having range is the worst thing for AK, who is really a bad shooter. At least marion knows his weakness.

I think the main problem is that AK is a bad fit for us, since we need somebody who can defende 2s and 3s, not 3s and 4s.
He's got better range than Marion imo. And Marion in Phoenix wasn't aware of this weakness.

And saying Marion is simply a better SF than AK at this point in their career is untrue. I'm sure there are numbers to back up your claim, but watching them, I'd take AK 10 outta 10 times.

And I agree with your second assessment. We need a true perimeter defender, not a hybrid.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
marion is a better defender against smaller players (kobe for example). while both are sf/pf, marion is a better SF than AK. And having range is the worst thing for AK, who is really a bad shooter. At least marion knows his weakness.

I think the main problem is that AK is a bad fit for us, since we need somebody who can defende 2s and 3s, not 3s and 4s.
True.

I think the possibilty is there, obviously, for a Utah/Marion trade.

If Marion came at around 7.5 million per, it would instantly save them 9 million a season over the next couple. That alone could either bring back Boozer, or at the very least open up the possibilty of their own S&T with him for an upgrade at the 2.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Utah wants a starting SF who can run the defend, rebound on both ends and who can run the break with D.Will alot better than Kirilenko can.

The last 3 seasons kirilenko is averaging 10 and 4 and Marion about 13 and 10. There's a reason why Kirilenko is coming off the bench.

I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to Utah Claud.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Utah wants a starting SF who can run the defend, rebound on both ends and who can run the break with D.Will alot better than Kirilenko can.

The last 3 seasons kirilenko is averaging 10 and 4 and Marion about 13 and 10. There's a reason why Kirilenko is coming off the bench.

I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to Utah Claud.
You're about as wise as the left over part of a box of crackers....you know the crumbs....where they are not accually crackers, you don't throw them out because you feel bad because it still constitutes substance.....but you definatly can't put cheese on them...too small.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to Utah Claud.
had you been on this board for more than a couple of months you would know that claudius is a life-long jazz fan, and just about the most educated guy on the topic outside utah...
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