Smith: BC's Working Hard to Trade JO
Old 01-14-2009, 09:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The one thing that I can see happening – and the way to at least delay a difficult decision – is that O’Neal’s going to need some time to get back into game shape, both for his conditioning and his timing.

Could that allow a face-saving measure of having him come off the bench for the first few games to ease his way back into it? I know it only delays the inevitable conflict but if Bryan Colangelo’s working the trade phones as hard as I’m told he is, a delay might not be a bad idea.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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JO should be off the bench and he should say NOTHING about being there, at this point he should be glad to still be employed! IMHO

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Old 01-14-2009, 10:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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JO should be off the bench and he should say NOTHING about being there, at this point he should be glad to still be employed! IMHO
i think at this point, and seeing how well Bargnani has been playing paired with the chemistry that AB and CB have, i would be SHOCKED if Oneal made a fuss about coming off the bench.

That being said, I disagree with your "still glad to be employed" comment. When his knee lets him, Oneal can play some fantastic basketball. Hell, he was our best player during a good stretch of games.

He'll have NO problem remaining employed for a while (health permitting of course).
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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When his knee lets him, Oneal can play some fantastic basketball. Hell, he was our best player during a good stretch of games.
that may be true, but as i see it, i don't see him being content to come off the bench. i would love to see the 3 big rotation work, but Jermaine is just not physically able to compete night after night. Trade him and hope some one is dumber than BC and will take him off our hands and get some help at a position we need help in like the 3 or the 2, i would be happy getting a 3 and moving Will to the 2 spot when Jose comes back and let him score and not run the floor.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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When Oneal comes back he should come off the bench as well should Calderon.If our team can stay in the playoff hunt which i think we can I would like to see how we look with those guys. You keep Willy starting and Roko coming off the bench. You have JO first big off the bench.I would give both these guys only 15-18 mins tops. They must go hard for those 18 mins and regardless even if they are playing great you sit them down. Its not about how they will feel during the game its how they feel the next day.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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no we still need JO in the Starting line up to beat teams like Celtics and we need Jose to sart he brings the enrgy in the fist and fourth quarter, it sohuld be (JO Bosh Barg AP and Jose at the point)
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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we have neva seen JO and Jose properly play with Trianos Gamplan after the all star break i think we will be in for a surprise
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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we have neva seen JO and Jose properly play with Trianos Gamplan after the all star break i think we will be in for a surprise
that's a good point.

However, i would argue that Bargnani's development is more important to this team now and in the future. Besides, it's not like Bargs is a "project" struggling to find a role. Dude has found that role, and kicking ass at it. considering shifting him around has been disasterous in the past, why would you risk doing that now.

One can argue that Bargnani's best ball this year has been better than Oneal's best ball.

and really... that's no knock on Jermaine. I still think he can be big for us off the bench.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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You guys are nutsss

Why do you all think JO will have a big issue with coming off the bench? ... Someone paste me a link or a quote...

Everyone is just assuming he'd have a problem with it. I personally dont think hes a selfish player... and he hasent played in what almost a month? 3 weeks?... He should play max 15-18 mins at his first game back.

However I do believe he should start friday @ Indiana.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
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that may be true, but as i see it, i don't see him being content to come off the bench. i would love to see the 3 big rotation work, but Jermaine is just not physically able to compete night after night. Trade him and hope some one is dumber than BC and will take him off our hands and get some help at a position we need help in like the 3 or the 2, i would be happy getting a 3 and moving Will to the 2 spot when Jose comes back and let him score and not run the floor.
I don't get why people think BC is dumb. Who would you rather have? Rasho and TJ, who pouted like he grew two set of labia, or JO and his $21-21M expiring contract?

BC's 5-year plan from the start was to build around Bosh, Bargnani, and TJ. (granted he got lucky with the development of Jose and possibly now Roko... but, he was also unlucky with Salmons not wanting to play in Canada). He built his early teams, including this one (and next year's), to just be competitive. During his first four years here, he wants to bring some respectibility to this organization and to have his three stars develop.

JO, and more specifically, his contract, are a means of bringing a championship to Toronto. So, judge the man at the start of 2010... or earlier, if he moves JO for anything other than expiring contracts. Until then, enjoy the development of the raps big three and try to put this year and next year into perspective.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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i guess to me, i want to build a team that has a chance of winning and put the best players on the floor right now. JO was a high risk contract and an experiment that failed us miserably. sure we are only a couple of games out of the playoffs and if "success" to people means getting your asses handed to you after getting into the playoffs with a below .500% win/loss record, then this year will probably be a success. BC was brought in to WIN, not to give us a team of nice guys who try really really really hard night after night but just seem to be an elite point guard short or a SF short of really making a run at that 6 spot in the conference. IF ALL TEAMS have the same salary cap, they why the hell can't this team make a deal that will actually improve us? THAT is the fault of the GM, not JOSE, NOT JO, NOT Chris Bosh or anyone else. Acquiring JO for his contract while giving up a servicable center and a pouty guard does not make him a f((((g genius, it loses his credibility in the game and in my opinion, leaves this team open to being raped and pillaged by teams dying to get ahold of Jose or Andrea. 2010 is a dream and anyone who thinks Lebron or Dwyane would come here instead of any other city is delusional. NO ONE wants to make 20+ million a year to give half of it back in taxes... it's the problem with small market nhl teams and the cfl as well.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You guys are nutsss

Why do you all think JO will have a big issue with coming off the bench? ... Someone paste me a link or a quote...

Everyone is just assuming he'd have a problem with it. I personally dont think hes a selfish player... and he hasent played in what almost a month? 3 weeks?... He should play max 15-18 mins at his first game back.

However I do believe he should start friday @ Indiana.
JO, like most thugballas in the nba is selfish and you can see this by his demanding the ball 20 feet out. he needs to accept his role as a bit player and a rebounder and if he averages 10 points a game, but controls the boards like he was brought in here to do, then he will be fine, but he won't be happy playing behind a kid who is much more able to work with CB, not demand his points...
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i guess to me, i want to build a team that has a chance of winning and put the best players on the floor right now. JO was a high risk contract and an experiment that failed us miserably. sure we are only a couple of games out of the playoffs and if "success" to people means getting your asses handed to you after getting into the playoffs with a below .500% win/loss record, then this year will probably be a success. BC was brought in to WIN, not to give us a team of nice guys who try really really really hard night after night but just seem to be an elite point guard short or a SF short of really making a run at that 6 spot in the conference. IF ALL TEAMS have the same salary cap, they why the hell can't this team make a deal that will actually improve us? THAT is the fault of the GM, not JOSE, NOT JO, NOT Chris Bosh or anyone else. Acquiring JO for his contract while giving up a servicable center and a pouty guard does not make him a f((((g genius, it loses his credibility in the game and in my opinion, leaves this team open to being raped and pillaged by teams dying to get ahold of Jose or Andrea. 2010 is a dream and anyone who thinks Lebron or Dwyane would come here instead of any other city is delusional. NO ONE wants to make 20+ million a year to give half of it back in taxes... it's the problem with small market nhl teams and the cfl as well.
Everyone wants to win now. But, Toronto is in Ontario, and not in Massachusetts. BC is working with the assets and environment he's been put in. And, that means he needs to build a championship slowly, and not over one summer.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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hmmm, the Celtics made 2 moves and brought in KG, Ray allen and won a championship as they brought in pieces to help Paul Pierce. who has BC brought in to actually help JO? drafted AB ahead of a lot of nba ready pieces, you all have railed on my about that 2006 draft year, but i KNOW that teams were ecstatic when we took Bargs ahead of Aldridge and Roy, i know Portland was grateful, rudy gay was a can't miss prospect as was danny granger and we took bargs... that will be the legacy of BC. unless Bargs becomes a game changer, which he looks like he might, BC has done nothing of real value for this team. i am trying to understand the business aspect of the game, but expiring contracts don't put wins in the standings or seats in the arenas, winning does.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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hmmm, the Celtics made 2 moves and brought in KG, Ray allen and won a championship as they brought in pieces to help Paul Pierce. who has BC brought in to actually help JO? drafted AB ahead of a lot of nba ready pieces, you all have railed on my about that 2006 draft year, but i KNOW that teams were ecstatic when we took Bargs ahead of Aldridge and Roy, i know Portland was grateful, rudy gay was a can't miss prospect as was danny granger and we took bargs... that will be the legacy of BC. unless Bargs becomes a game changer, which he looks like he might, BC has done nothing of real value for this team. i am trying to understand the business aspect of the game, but expiring contracts don't put wins in the standings or seats in the arenas, winning does.
Umm Boston is hugely over the cap

Hey MLSE has the money... we can buy a championship if they open there wallets..
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't think that BC is working hard enough... time to brush his teeth and get on his knees.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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hmmm, the Celtics made 2 moves and brought in KG, Ray allen and won a championship as they brought in pieces to help Paul Pierce. who has BC brought in to actually help JO? drafted AB ahead of a lot of nba ready pieces, you all have railed on my about that 2006 draft year, but i KNOW that teams were ecstatic when we took Bargs ahead of Aldridge and Roy, i know Portland was grateful, rudy gay was a can't miss prospect as was danny granger and we took bargs... that will be the legacy of BC. unless Bargs becomes a game changer, which he looks like he might, BC has done nothing of real value for this team. i am trying to understand the business aspect of the game, but expiring contracts don't put wins in the standings or seats in the arenas, winning does.
BC admitted from the start that Bargnani was not going to be NBA ready for 3-4 years. Everyone knew that Roy was going to be a star (if his knee held up), yet he was drafted 6th. Rudy Gay was drafted 8th.

Finally, Granger was drafted in 2005, not 2006. That was when the Babcock took Charlie V 7th, Joey G went 16th, and Granger went 17th (man, I forgot that Chris Paul was drafted 4th overall that year, after Bogut, Marvin and Deron Williams!)...

And, again. The Celtics have a storied history, and are in the US. Toronto is in a different country, where we live in igloos and wear snow shoes to catch our fish. Our taxes are high and we all speak french....
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Finally, Granger was drafted in 2005, not 2006. That was when the Babcock took Charlie V 7th, Joey G went 16th, and Granger went 17th (man, I forgot that Chris Paul was drafted 4th overall that year, after Bogut, Marvin and Deron Williams!)...
thanks, i forgot all of that too lol
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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hmmm, the Celtics made 2 moves and brought in KG, Ray allen and won a championship as they brought in pieces to help Paul Pierce. who has BC brought in to actually help JO? drafted AB ahead of a lot of nba ready pieces, you all have railed on my about that 2006 draft year, but i KNOW that teams were ecstatic when we took Bargs ahead of Aldridge and Roy, i know Portland was grateful, rudy gay was a can't miss prospect as was danny granger and we took bargs... that will be the legacy of BC. unless Bargs becomes a game changer, which he looks like he might, BC has done nothing of real value for this team. i am trying to understand the business aspect of the game, but expiring contracts don't put wins in the standings or seats in the arenas, winning does.
A few things with your post, takman

1. Colangelo always said Bargnani was a 3-4 year project and now he's looking like he's beginning to put it all together, which from a Raptors standpoint is great to see. So, you can argue that Aldridge and Roy are better than Bargnani, but if Andrea continues to progress, you could easily put him ahead of Aldridge and hopefully he can be on par with what Roy is doing out in Portland.

2. Danny Granger was not in the same draft class as Bargnani. That was the year before. Colangelo wasn't here yet.

3. You say look at what Boston did, but they got lucky in the KG deal, Minnesota took their pieces - I don't think Minnesota got enough, but that's just me. And they went over the cap. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money/win championship banners and MLSE doesn't really want to do that - at least just yet.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Well,shit, looks like macs beat me to the punch.
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