Slam online: Raptors resurgence - Page 5
Old 01-09-2014, 07:37 PM   #81 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,931
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Fair enough but it just boggles the mind that you always, always bring it up. You have before.

Um, what are you talking about? In my post I'm referring to KoolAid's post(s) and if you are referring to the thumbs down I received for my response to you I couldn't care less.
You have done it a lot. I've brought it up a few times. Now you do the whole +1 in a huge font thing. It's just funny that your agreeing with something has to be so special. But whatever. I thought it was funny that you pointed out how dismissed a guy's posts are when you constantly enshrine them with big plusses. Nothing personal. Just joshin'. Give me a great big bolded minus 1 if you like.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 07:42 PM   #82 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
You have done it a lot. I've brought it up a few times. Now you do the whole +1 in a huge font thing. It's just funny that your agreeing with something has to be so special. But whatever. I thought it was funny that you pointed out how dismissed a guy's posts are when you constantly enshrine them with big plusses. Nothing personal. Just joshin'. Give me a great big bolded minus 1 if you like.
I used to do it a lot. Lol believe me I know you've brought it up.

It's kind of creepy though that you follow how I commend posts

I don't constantly enshrine them and the point I brought up was valid.

I won't. I don't do giant -1s.

Lastly, I think the forum could benefit from the way it's done on the other board I'm on - likes or nothing. So, if someone likes a post, it shows their name - LX likes this. There are no dislikes or thumbs down - if one really dislikes/disagrees with a post a pretty good response will be made as to why.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 07:47 PM   #83 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,388
Representing:
Default

I think the whole idea of plus and minus is childish, what difference does it makes whether you like something or not, if you have something to say, say it in a post and that's that. Any kind of association between popularity and truth is misguided - even when it's only subtly implicit. Does a high rating improves a post validity in any way? Obviously not - so then what's the point?

I've seen some forums where the +/- is used as a threshold where beyond a certain level, negative posts are hidden by default. While this makes some sense in a wide open forum with lots of trolling, on this fairly closed community it wouldn't.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 08:01 PM   #84 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
I have no idea what that has to do with winning 50 games every year. Why would any season be an accurate representation of anything other than itself? Are you going beyond engineering a championship team and moving onto engineering the whole future history of the game of basketball? Honestly, watching some good games is just about enough for me, so you are going way over my head.
It has everything to do with winning 50 games every year. In a weak conference you're playing against weaker competition. Our division might be the weakest in league history, and if it were stronger we wouldn't win 50 games, which is far from guaranteed this year, which you make it out to be. Do you honestly think that in a year where a third of the league wasn't horrible, we'd be able to win 50 games?
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 08:07 PM   #85 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
Actually, some of the crappy teams will get no better than us through the draft, since they will also make the playoffs. For example, two of Cleveland, Charlotte and Detroit will make the playoffs, and likely stay crappy.

On top of that, even though other teams will get better through new acquisitions, so will we. So, yes, LX's point about us treading at 50 wins is not that far-fetched.
Regardless of if they're better than us or not, they will be better than they are this year. This is the worst year the NBA has experienced in a while, and a lot of great talent will be entering the league through the draft over the next few years.

Oh and I guess Cleveland, Charlotte, and Detroit can't experience internal growth? Only the god-tier Toronto Raptors, huh? It's unreasonable to have your expectations for this team to improve internally any higher than those other teams. They are arguably more youthful and have more potential than this team does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Most other teams in the East won't improve next season too.
I think it's hilarious that some people didn't catch onto your sarcasm and thumbed you up and Kirby down for saying the same thing.

As for my thumbs down, I don't really give a fuck. I know it's just people who disagree with the notion of tanking and are too stupid to actually debate, so they just thumb down.

Last edited by KoolAid; 01-09-2014 at 08:11 PM.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 08:33 PM   #86 (permalink)
doesn't care where LeBron plays. Or Melo.

OY!!
 
niggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Loch Ness
Posts: 2,772
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
It has everything to do with winning 50 games every year. In a weak conference you're playing against weaker competition. Our division might be the weakest in league history, and if it were stronger we wouldn't win 50 games, which is far from guaranteed this year, which you make it out to be. Do you honestly think that in a year where a third of the league wasn't horrible, we'd be able to win 50 games?
I think you're forgetting that teams still have to play the inter conference games against the west, plus games against Miami, Indy and ATL, so while the conference isn't as strong as the West, first you have to win your own conference, before East meets West for the title. First you need to be a playoff team, then over time you have to improve to get to the title series. And if our division were stronger, we might still win 50 games. That's my opinion. Playing against better teams , makes you play better. You can give your opinion, but that doesn't make it fact, just your guess. You have no idea what Masai may or may not do, which you have displayed continuously here, other than a whole lot of "what if's" and " the sky is falling" and " save the women and children first". We can only deal with " what is" because we have no say in the " what might be". Stop screaming FIRE before we're even in the theatre, because frankly it's boring and sort of like teenage acne.
niggles is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 08:43 PM   #87 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,533
Representing:
Default

All other teams will improve in the east overnight next year except us because we are bad and just unlucky and we don't have a top 5 pick this year.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 08:45 PM   #88 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,388
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
I think you're forgetting that teams still have to play the inter conference games against the west, plus games against Miami, Indy and ATL, so while the conference isn't as strong as the West, first you have to win your own conference, before East meets West for the title. First you need to be a playoff team, then over time you have to improve to get to the title series. And if our division were stronger, we might still win 50 games. That's my opinion. Playing against better teams , makes you play better. You can give your opinion, but that doesn't make it fact, just your guess. You have no idea what Masai may or may not do, which you have displayed continuously here, other than a whole lot of "what if's" and " the sky is falling" and " save the women and children first". We can only deal with " what is" because we have no say in the " what might be". Stop screaming FIRE before we're even in the theatre, because frankly it's boring and sort of like teenage acne.
so what are you saying, that claiming we will 50 games is a fact, while disputing that is a hypothetical scenario?

first of all, since you're dealing with "what is", let's win 50 games this season before we proclaim ourselves a perennial 50 games winner for the foreseeable future ...

As for the weakness of the conference, this season we will probably win 18 of 19 games against the combined forces of boston/chicago/philadelphia and orlando. There alone we stand to lose the differnece between those 50 games and only 40 games. It's not that the east is weak, but between devastating injuries to superstars and teams actively trying (at GM level) to lose games, there's a lot of fairly easy wins that will come much harder next season.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 08:59 PM   #89 (permalink)
doesn't care where LeBron plays. Or Melo.

OY!!
 
niggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Loch Ness
Posts: 2,772
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
so what are you saying, that claiming we will 50 games is a fact, while disputing that is a hypothetical scenario?

first of all, since you're dealing with "what is", let's win 50 games this season before we proclaim ourselves a perennial 50 games winner for the foreseeable future ...

As for the weakness of the conference, this season we will probably win 18 of 19 games against the combined forces of boston/chicago/philadelphia and orlando. There alone we stand to lose the differnece between those 50 games and only 40 games. It's not that the east is weak, but between devastating injuries to superstars and teams actively trying (at GM level) to lose games, there's a lot of fairly easy wins that will come much harder next season.
No, I only used 50 games because that's what Koolaid used in his post. Personally, I don't think we win 50 games this year, more like 45ish, maybe 46, but enough ground work being laid to up it the next year by 5 to 7 more wins, because of internal improvement plus the fact we'll start the season without Rudy next year. The East is weak this year, but I'm hoping NY and Brooklyn play better for the rest of the year and push us to improve more more, make it tougher for us.
niggles is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:22 PM   #90 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

This is how U(jiri) do it
 
Carlos Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Halifax
Posts: 3,918
Representing:
Default

We're going to need to improve, or we'll be scrapping for that 8th seed next year. The Nets are already starting to come together and win some games, the Knicks have a huge asset in Carmelo and could ironically rebuild their team with the same guy they tore theirs down for. Cavs have to many good pieces to be this bad forever.

Not to mention the Knicks and Cavs, along with the other bottom feeding teams in the East, will add a solid player in the draft.

This season, we can likely coast and keep the 3rd/4th seed. Next season, we'll need to be improved to stay afloat.
Carlos Danger is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:26 PM   #91 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
I think you're forgetting that teams still have to play the inter conference games against the west, plus games against Miami, Indy and ATL, so while the conference isn't as strong as the West, first you have to win your own conference, before East meets West for the title. First you need to be a playoff team, then over time you have to improve to get to the title series. And if our division were stronger, we might still win 50 games. That's my opinion. Playing against better teams , makes you play better. You can give your opinion, but that doesn't make it fact, just your guess. You have no idea what Masai may or may not do, which you have displayed continuously here, other than a whole lot of "what if's" and " the sky is falling" and " save the women and children first". We can only deal with " what is" because we have no say in the " what might be". Stop screaming FIRE before we're even in the theatre, because frankly it's boring and sort of like teenage acne.
What have I even said that has anything to do with tanking in this thread? All I have said was in retort to LX's post where he implied 2 things:
1. That this team is a definite 50 win team
2. That this team will continue to be one in the future guaranteed
That's all I have disagreed with. You seem to be in agreeance that this team isn't a 50 win team (as stated in your last post) and although this team will marginally improve over the next 2 years (barring a major trade), I think that the other teams around us in the East will improve too, and probably more than us. That's my opinion. But the fact is that the east is weak this year. Very weak. You play each team in the East 3 times per year, and if 3-5 teams in the East get better, we're looking at roughly 5-10 less wins. Far from guaranteed to get 50 wins for multiple years in a row like LX said.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:39 PM   #92 (permalink)
doesn't care where LeBron plays. Or Melo.

OY!!
 
niggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Loch Ness
Posts: 2,772
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
What have I even said that has anything to do with tanking in this thread? All I have said was in retort to LX's post where he implied 2 things:
1. That this team is a definite 50 win team
2. That this team will continue to be one in the future guaranteed
That's all I have disagreed with. You seem to be in agreeance that this team isn't a 50 win team (as stated in your last post) and although this team will marginally improve over the next 2 years (barring a major trade), I think that the other teams around us in the East will improve too, and probably more than us. That's my opinion. But the fact is that the east is weak this year. Very weak. You play each team in the East 3 times per year, and if 3-5 teams in the East get better, we're looking at roughly 5-10 less wins. Far from guaranteed to get 50 wins for multiple years in a row like LX said.
I never said you mentioned tanking. I meant your habit of self-assuredly interpreting what Masai meant when he made statements. Everything he was saying was interpreted through the biases you felt and wanted, and you made sure to post your usually inaccurate interpretations and argue when other people didn't agree with your " established facts". Opinions don't become facts by constant repetition.
niggles is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:47 PM   #93 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
It has everything to do with winning 50 games every year. In a weak conference you're playing against weaker competition. Our division might be the weakest in league history, and if it were stronger we wouldn't win 50 games, which is far from guaranteed this year, which you make it out to be. Do you honestly think that in a year where a third of the league wasn't horrible, we'd be able to win 50 games?
You make it sound as though we've ONLY been playing teams like ORL and PHI. Have you seen our road record recently? Do you remember that we beat IND, DAL and OKC... who aren't in our division?

Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that this team actually IS playing better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
I think the whole idea of plus and minus is childish, what difference does it makes whether you like something or not, if you have something to say, say it in a post and that's that. Any kind of association between popularity and truth is misguided - even when it's only subtly implicit. Does a high rating improves a post validity in any way? Obviously not - so then what's the point?

I've seen some forums where the +/- is used as a threshold where beyond a certain level, negative posts are hidden by default. While this makes some sense in a wide open forum with lots of trolling, on this fairly closed community it wouldn't.
Couldn't agree more. Does nothing but encourage trolling IMO.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:48 PM   #94 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,931
Representing:
Default

Haha! I guaranteed 50 wins! Woooohooo!

I don't think I guaranteed anything. Who is dismissing what? I suggested a treadmill at 50 wins would be pretty nice. You, koolaid, are the one that appears to infer that the treadmill is some kind of guarantee of nothing more than marginal improvement. No season is an accurate representation of anything. But a team that plays top 5 defense will tend to have a decent chance to win 50 games each year - that's just a timeless truth. And it has nothing to do with how strong or weak other teams are - that's just overcomplicating matters for no good reason.

You want this team to be bad. That comes across clearly whether you bring up tanking or not. If the team isn't quite as bad as you wish, you make it all about how bad the conference is. Then you project nothing but improvement everywhere but here because of our not being as bad as we should be. It should not be a mystery why your points get dismissed.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 09:49 PM   #95 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

This is how U(jiri) do it
 
Carlos Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Halifax
Posts: 3,918
Representing:
Default

The point of +/- is allowing us to minus Pzabbby when he complains in the random thought thread.
Carlos Danger is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:10 PM   #96 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Haha! I guaranteed 50 wins! Woooohooo!

I don't think I guaranteed anything. Who is dismissing what? I suggested a treadmill at 50 wins would be pretty nice. You, koolaid, are the one that appears to infer that the treadmill is some kind of guarantee of nothing more than marginal improvement. No season is an accurate representation of anything. But a team that plays top 5 defense will tend to have a decent chance to win 50 games each year - that's just a timeless truth. And it has nothing to do with how strong or weak other teams are - that's just overcomplicating matters for no good reason.

You want this team to be bad. That comes across clearly whether you bring up tanking or not. If the team isn't quite as bad as you wish, you make it all about how bad the conference is. Then you project nothing but improvement everywhere but here because of our not being as bad as we should be. It should not be a mystery why your points get dismissed.
Reading a little too far into it. I don't think the east sucks because I want the team to be bad, in fact its the opposite. I want the team to suck because the east sucks and I think a top 5 pick is more valuable to this team than a year of playoff experience, which is really what it comes down to. Its my opinion, you have yours and I am entitled to mine. But that's neither here nor there.

The implication in your post is that we are and will be a 50 win team. My stance is that we are neither one this year (closer to 45) and even less of one over the next 2 or 3 years, with the other teams around you improving at a faster rate than you. Detroit has massive cap room, Orlando, Boston, Milwaukee, and Philly will all be adding top picks and/or injured players back to their roster. Their current players will improve, as will ours. The difference is those teams are making changes by adding better players to their roster, rather than only improving the ones they have. We currently do not have the option to add any such players without losing a significant chunk of the core.

Take the Miami Heat and put them in the NCAA. They likely go undefeated. Put them in a season's worth of games vs the 80s "Jordan Rules" Pistons and they might win 50. Does it mean the Heat are worse? No, it just means the teams around them improved.

Bottom line: You think the Raptors win total will improve over the next few years as the team grows internally, I think it will decline as the competition improves league-wide and other teams improve in a multitude of ways.

Last edited by KoolAid; 01-09-2014 at 11:13 PM.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:16 PM   #97 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
I never said you mentioned tanking. I meant your habit of self-assuredly interpreting what Masai meant when he made statements. Everything he was saying was interpreted through the biases you felt and wanted, and you made sure to post your usually inaccurate interpretations and argue when other people didn't agree with your " established facts". Opinions don't become facts by constant repetition.
You're right, opinions don't become facts by repetition. But the Atlantic has 0 teams above .500 right now. Has that ever happened in league history? It should be pretty clear that a lot more teams are bad than usual.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:18 PM   #98 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post

Bottom line: You think the Raptors win total will improve over the next few years as the team grows internally, I think it will decline as the competition improves league-wide and other teams improve in a multitude of ways.
If the other teams are going to improve that much then how is one good draft pick going to help? Unless your plan is to be in the lottery for the next 3-4 years?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:19 PM   #99 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,388
Representing:
Default

to be honest, the way the knicks and nets are playing, even winning the division is far from granted. Knicks just beat miami, after winning on the road in SAS and Dallas and almost beating Houston in the process as well. Nets have won in OKC and against GSW and their vets are finally showing some life. Saturday game will be huge and luckily we'll be catching an old team on a B2B. Combined, in the past 3 weeks, raps/knicks/nets have beaten OKC twice, SAS, Miami, Indiana, Dallas twice and GSW. Looks like the Atlantic division may have the last laugh after all ...
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:21 PM   #100 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,388
Representing:
Default

I guess I should have watched the game ...

Quote:
Who would have thought the most effective former Raptor would have been Andrea Bargnani? And it really wasn't close. Not only was Bosh off his game offensively after missing seven of his first eight shots, there wasn't much of an answer defensively from him at the rim in the second half. The Bosh-Chris Andersen tandem couldn't even contain Amar'e Stoudemire. That's a problem.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24