SI: Bargnani now a leader - Page 2
Old 01-26-2012, 01:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The funny thing is you say that Bargs is as good/maybe better than dirk at this point in his career, then you put down Dirk's 8-9 rebound average. Do you realize Bargs has averaged 6rpg for his career. If you think 8-9 isn't good how can you think Bargnani is better?
Lol wait wait wait, so I said Bargs was better at defence than dirk *and I said Dirk always struggled with rebounding.* Your saying, Bargnani is avging 6.4 rbs but only after 13 games, with more than half the season to go? Then you said dirk’s a better rebounder, and I said both of them suck at rebounding lol for some who plays center and pf. So, by comparing both players, statistically your right Dirk averaged closed to 2 more rebounds in his 6th season. But this is a hopeless comparison in terms of rebounding at the beginning of the season. I still think Bargnani is a much better rebounder than Dirk in his 6th season, maybe those numbers are not reflected in his 6.4 rbs after only 13 games. I never said anything about Bargnani being better than dirk in both ends of the court, I said defensively Bargs was slightly better at this point of his career.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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yes! top 43 sounds like a Great number lol. Plus, I am pretty sure when Ben Wallace played starter with Detroit he avg more than 10 rbs.
then why did you say this nonsense?

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Most pf's and Centers average about 11 or 12 rbs career wise.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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then why did you say this nonsense?
Because Ben Wallace's lowest rebounding avg was 11.3 when he was with detroit. I said greater than 10 to match your 43 top players you kept talking about. Why don't just check his avg here for yourself...

Ben Wallace Career Stats Page | NBA.com

FFF!, not sure how it went from a barg thread to a career rebounding thread lol fml

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Old 01-26-2012, 01:35 PM   #24 (permalink)
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We must also consider the fact that Nowitzki played in what was arguably the fastest paced system in the league for years.

That definitely lead to a lot of defensive rebounding opportunities.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Because Ben Wallace's lowest rebounding avg was 11.3 when he was with detroit. I said greater than 10 to match your 43 top players you kept talking about. Why don't just check his avg here for yourself...

Ben Wallace Career Stats Page | NBA.com

FFF!, not sure how it went from a barg thread to a career rebounding thread lol fml
you are confusing the posts. ben wallace's name had not come up when you said this, which is patently false:

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Most pf's and Centers average about 11 or 12 rbs career wise.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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you are confusing the posts. ben wallace's name had not come up when you said this, which is patently false:
Weren't you the one who brought Ben Wallace, Patrick Ewing and Charles Oakley into the conversation as a jab at the standard rebounding mark?
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:51 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Weren't you the one who brought Ben Wallace, Patrick Ewing and Charles Oakley into the conversation as a jab at the standard rebounding mark?
that would be after you said most c's and pf's average 11-12 boards per game. take a look back in the thread dude.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:58 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I did man...I stick by those figures which would mean most good centers and pf avg's a double/double.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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It's just awesome that this team finally has a leader that wants to win more than anything else, including fame and recognition.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:01 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I did man...I stick by those figures which would mean most good centers and pf avg's a double/double.
that would mean there are only 43 good centres and pf's in the history of the nba. you sure that's a statement you want to stick to?
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:18 PM   #31 (permalink)
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For a guy who plays 4 & 5, 8-9 rbs is not a big deal. Most pf's and Centers average about 11 or 12 rbs career wise. I think Tim duncan's career avg is around 12 rbs. So Dirk and Andrea are not great rebounders.
Current active players (with >5000 rebounds total in their career - so about 5 years of playing) averaging 11 rebounds per game or more for their career:

Dwight Howard: 12.93
Tim Duncan: 11.34

That is all. In the league. Right now. Seriously. That's a ridiculous comment to make.

Let's try seeing how many active players (same criteria) are averaging 10 rebounds or more per game for their careers.

Dwight Howard: 12.93
Tim Duncan: 11.34
Kevin Garnett: 10.68
Emeka Okafor: 10.16
Carlos Boozer: 10.04

And that's it. Seriously, you are way off base on those numbers.

As further proof: the number of players who average >11 rebounds per game on the SEASON (not career) for the past few years.
2011-12: 6
2010-11: 4
2009-10: 5
2008-09: 3
2007-08: 5
2006-07: 5

So... to be a "good" PF or C you have to be top 5 in the league in rebounding? Seems a little but ridiculous. By that reasoning there are only 5 good PF's and C's in the entire league.

And for the record, Dirk is 16th in the league in career rebounds per game (same criteria). So, yeah, he's not all that bad at it.
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:04 PM   #32 (permalink)
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^^^well I think your taking this out of context a little bud. My response of career rebounding was to Dirk's lack of strength in rebounding, not to compare both Bargs and dirk to some of the best defenders in the game, Dwight and Okafor etc. Just like someone else said look back at the thread for all the responses. K yes 11-12 rbs avg is a little farfetched but that was a response to dirk being labeled a threatening rebounder lol, which I don't think he is.
Im out man, if you want...yes! Dirk is a one of the top rebounders in the game...pointless argument man
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:26 PM   #33 (permalink)
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^^^well I think your taking this out of context a little bud. My response of career rebounding was to Dirk's lack of strength in rebounding, not to compare both Bargs and dirk to some of the best defenders in the game, Dwight and Okafor etc. Just like someone else said look back at the thread for all the responses. K yes 11-12 rbs avg is a little farfetched but that was a response to dirk being labeled a threatening rebounder lol, which I don't think he is.
Im out man, if you want...yes! Dirk is a one of the top rebounders in the game...pointless argument man
You don't have to compare them to the best in the game. But you did when you brought up the 11-12 number. Since Dirk averages about 9, and 11 is really far fetched, he is clearly a decent rebounder. Whereas Bargnani is an awful rebounder (less so this year, but still really bad). What exactly is it you were trying to say again?
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:47 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Pretty sure someone wanted this clip:

Bargnani raging after a missed shot
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:56 PM   #35 (permalink)
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That wasn't a rebel yell, that my friend, was a war call.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:01 AM   #36 (permalink)
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If...and thats a big if, Bargnani has made a turn for the better, I'd STILL wait till we see a full season till we start with these silly comparisons.

Dirk was a star pretty early, and he has a ring.

Bargnani has had some good games.

Not really grounds for bitter debates.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:08 AM   #37 (permalink)
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If...and thats a big if, Bargnani has made a turn for the better, I'd STILL wait till we see a full season till we start with these silly comparisons.

Dirk was a star pretty early, and he has a ring.

Bargnani has had some good games.

Not really grounds for bitter debates.

Agreed. Finally someone realistically toning the hype down a bit. Among the all-star talk, MVP crap and Dirk comparison. He's been playing this way what, 13 games? I love how he's playing but I've said it before, let's wait and see what he does the rest of the season and I would even say, let's see how he comes into training camp next fall when hopefully the talent level is up on the roster.

Last edited by jeffb; 11-22-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:12 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Jeffy, I don't mind the Allstar talk, Allstar is always a what have you done lately type call, and he's done plenty.... the rest however.... not really relevant at this point is it?
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:36 AM   #39 (permalink)
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For a guy who plays 4 & 5, 8-9 rbs is not a big deal. Most pf's and Centers average about 11 or 12 rbs career wise. I think Tim duncan's career avg is around 12 rbs. So Dirk and Andrea are not great rebounders.
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yes! top 43 sounds like a Great number lol. Plus, I am pretty sure when Ben Wallace played starter with Detroit he avg more than 10 rbs.
Whoah, whoah! Hold your horses!

I think by "Most PF's and C's average about 11 or 12 rbs career wise" you mean DURING THEIR PRIME. In a career you usually get the crappy years at the end and sometimes the developmental years in the beginning that drag down averages. To even average 10ppg over a long career is an achievement. Sheesh - even Patrick Ewing didn't average 10ppg for his career (9.8rpg career), but if you look at prime, from 1989 - 1997, he averaged close to 11rpg over that period.

Duncan's career average is closer to 11 than 12rpg, but he's also easily one of the three to five best PF's to ever play the game, so it's not like that really fortifies your argument that a "good" PF should average 11-12 rpg.

Ben Wallace is also at 9.8 boards per game for his career. In his Detroit starter days from 2000-2006 he averaged just shy of 13 boards a game. He won defensive player of the year 4 times (it should've been 5 but they gave it to Ron Artest once in there), averaged almost 3 blocks per game and about 7.5 points. Throwing Ben Wallace's name into an argument with Dirk and Bargs is pretty moot - what is the comparison? They are different players with different specialties.

--------
As for the Dirk to Bargs comparison - Dirk is inarguably a much better rebound over his career than Bargs. You can't take the rebounds of a 33-year old partied out post-championship Dirk's stats this season and compare them to Bargs and say they're about a push rebounds wise for their career. Dirk averaged 8.4+ boards 9 times in his career, and 8.9+ 6 times. Bargs' career high thus far is his current 6.3 rpg, in a limited sample of 13 games.

Last edited by BballWatcher; 01-27-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:36 AM   #40 (permalink)
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he has definitely changed my view of him of late. personally i found his progress slow for me at the beginning in terms what the "expectations" were. but now he's really showing the consistency in which he was the cause of all the hate and criticism. we knew he could score and rebound (come on your 7 foot tall, its all just a state of mind)... and finally now he seems to be pulling it together. I like the passion, especially how pissed off he was when he re-injured his calf
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