Should we trade a first round pick this year for an impact player? - Page 2

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Old 01-18-2012, 04:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I'd do that, ED's losing value atm
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:37 AM   #22 (permalink)
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adding rondo makes this team no better at all, id argue worse.

so no
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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A heathly and younger Rondo would be interesting, but I would keep my draft pick. All of the best teams have won it at the draft table ... Boston is probably the exception when they brought in two aging stars (Garnet and Allen) to go with Pierce and Rondo.
We need some luck at the table ... Our best chance is there in winning a championship. If we just want to be competitive again .. Trade the drafts.
I want a championship and the culture to go with it ...
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
adding rondo makes this team no better at all, id argue worse.

so no
Adding an all-star PG who plays great defense would make this team worse eh?

Curious to hear the explanation behind that one.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:50 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Adding an all-star PG who plays great defense would make this team worse eh?

Curious to hear the explanation behind that one.
+1 the only thing I can think of is that he can't shoot well, but that's teachable. He's still young.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:40 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Adding an all-star PG who plays great defense would make this team worse eh?

Curious to hear the explanation behind that one.
+1

the guy is 2x better than our best player on the roster
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:59 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Carlito View Post
A heathly and younger Rondo would be interesting, but I would keep my draft pick. All of the best teams have won it at the draft table ... Boston is probably the exception when they brought in two aging stars (Garnet and Allen) to go with Pierce and Rondo.
We need some luck at the table ... Our best chance is there in winning a championship. If we just want to be competitive again .. Trade the drafts.
I want a championship and the culture to go with it ...
What about LAL? Detroit? Heck, if Miami wins it they didn't do it at the draft table..... The draft isn't the only way, it's just about being smart about which trades to make, which players to chase
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:12 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
adding rondo makes this team no better at all, id argue worse.

so no
+1, I don't think rondo would be as successful if he wasn't playing with 3 future hall of famers.

also, theres the rule of never trading within your division.
you can see that draft pick possibly dominate you the next 10 years.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:43 AM   #29 (permalink)
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+1, I don't think rondo would be as successful if he wasn't playing with 3 future hall of famers.

also, theres the rule of never trading within your division.
you can see that draft pick possibly dominate you the next 10 years.
Rondo plays solid D. He rebounds. He finds the open man. He drives the lane. He has championship experience.

None of those things would change if he went to another team.

If you're waiting for us to land/draft a PG who's better than Rondo then you could be waiting an absurd amount of time.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 01-18-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:47 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Rondo is exactly the type of PG we need. Elite defense at the top, penetration, great in transition, fantastic in the PNR. I think it reinforces the need to add a guy with range at the 3, but I think most of the SF options have can shoot the rock.

Westbrook is a pipe dream. Rondo is as good a fit, arguably better. The only thing with Rondo is you have to surround him with some shooters but I don't think that's going to be an issue.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:30 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Adding an all-star PG who plays great defense would make this team worse eh?

Curious to hear the explanation behind that one.
right now he is surrounded by the greatest shooter in nba history and a very solid shooter in pierce. and still teams can absolutely drop off him and render him highly uneffective on the offensive end.

Anyteam with success against Boston(not discounting solid team defense) simply drops defensively against Rondo, give him a tonne of room to shoot and give the defender alot of room to take away the drive. When teams do that and keep the pace slow, Boston looses every time.

And just in case you havent noticed, Davis aint garnett, Demar aint Allen and JJ/Kleiza aint PP
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:44 AM   #32 (permalink)
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right now he is surrounded by the greatest shooter in nba history and a very solid shooter in pierce. and still teams can absolutely drop off him and render him highly uneffective on the offensive end.

Any team with success against Boston(not discounting solid team defense) simply drops defensively against Rondo, give him a tonne of room to shoot and give the defender alot of room to take away the drive. When teams do that and keep the pace slow, Boston looses every time.

And just in case you havent noticed, Davis aint garnett, Demar aint Allen and JJ/Kleiza aint PP
Absolutely false.

If it were THAT easy to nullify Rondo's game the Celts wouldn't have won a title and they would have been a contender for the past 4-5 seasons. Teams certainly go into the game thinking that that's how they're going to beat the Celts... but it rarely works out that way.

You're certainly welcome to believe that Rondo's entire game is simply a product of his playing with KG/Pierce/Allen... even though the players themselves have said otherwise... even though the coach has said otherwise... even though countless analysts/critics have said otherwise.

Bargs would probably avg. 25/gm playing with a PG like that. I would have thought that that alone would have sold you.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:55 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Absolutely false.

If it were THAT easy to nullify Rondo's game the Celts wouldn't have won a title and they would have been a contender for the past 4-5 seasons. Teams certainly go into the game thinking that that's how they're going to beat the Celts... but it rarely works out that way.

You're certainly welcome to believe that Rondo's entire game is simply a product of his playing with KG/Pierce/Allen... even though the players themselves have said otherwise... even though the coach has said otherwise... even though countless analysts/critics have said otherwise.

Bargs would probably avg. 25/gm playing with a PG like that. I would have thought that that alone would have sold you.
i posted in brackets about Boston's defense.

Bostons defense is one of the absolute best in the nba. that alone garners them finals/championship recognition.

And no it isnt easy for a team to collapse on Rondo, he has 3 great players with him who will make teams pay. But the successful teams are the ones who can do it. Which is exactly like I originally posted.

And Rondo weaknesses would be magnified here as we have jack shit on this team to make defenses pay. nothing.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:54 AM   #34 (permalink)
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i posted in brackets about Boston's defense.

Bostons defense is one of the absolute best in the nba. that alone garners them finals/championship recognition.

And no it isnt easy for a team to collapse on Rondo, he has 3 great players with him who will make teams pay. But the successful teams are the ones who can do it. Which is exactly like I originally posted.

And Rondo weaknesses would be magnified here as we have jack shit on this team to make defenses pay. nothing.
If you believe this then you must've taken a hard 180 in regards to your view of Bargs.

No one's saying that you put Rondo here and he leads to a title on his own. He's a great (and important) piece of the puzzle though. And for a defensive-minded coach he'd be a Godsend.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:58 AM   #35 (permalink)
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If you believe this then you must've taken a hard 180 in regards to your view of Bargs.

No one's saying that you put Rondo here and he leads to a title on his own. He's a great (and important) piece of the puzzle though. And for a defensive-minded coach he'd be a Godsend.
Rondo
Derozan
Batum
Bargs
Val

Would be a playoff team with the right depth players added and we go from. there.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:08 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Rondo
Derozan
Batum
Bargs
Val

Would be a playoff team with the right depth players added and we go from. there.
that's a bit of a stretch. valanciunas could very well be a bust or a long-term deveopment project, batum is not on our team and we may not have the assets to acquire him (especially if we trade the pick for rondo), derozan hasn't proven anything consistently yet, we have no idea how effective rondo can be with a different supporting cast, and we have no idea how serious rondo's injury concerns are.

on top of that, we would have no defined bench, and what appears to be a pretty porous line on the low block defensively.

it could be a playoff team, and it could be a mish-mash of supporting cast guys.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:23 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Rondo is a very good PG, but I wouldn't make him the centrepiece of the rebuilding process. He can be a volatile player, and he doesn't do enough to take over games. Instead, he's an excellent 2nd or 3rd wheel on a championship team. And if you're giving up a package that includes a lottery pick, a young PF (Davis), and others, you better be getting an elite player IMO. I don't consider Rondo to be in that category.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
If you believe this then you must've taken a hard 180 in regards to your view of Bargs.

No one's saying that you put Rondo here and he leads to a title on his own. He's a great (and important) piece of the puzzle though. And for a defensive-minded coach he'd be a Godsend.
no not really at all.

Bargs is a very solid piece to have on the team. Just wouldnt be a great fit with Rondo. He would revert back to more of a spot up 3pt shooter.

He needs to pick and roll, and rondo is lighting there, but sometimes the pg in that situation needs to be able to shoot.

In Boston its more pierce or allen running the pr then Rondo
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:07 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Rondo is a very good PG, but I wouldn't make him the centrepiece of the rebuilding process. He can be a volatile player, and he doesn't do enough to take over games. Instead, he's an excellent 2nd or 3rd wheel on a championship team. And if you're giving up a package that includes a lottery pick, a young PF (Davis), and others, you better be getting an elite player IMO. I don't consider Rondo to be in that category.
If you're talking about shooting the ball then I can't disagree. There's much more to the game than that though. And Rondo excels in a lot of those other areas.

We're not getting Chris Paul or Derrick Rose.... and I highly doubt that Westbrook and D. Williams would be available to us either. So your options are limited at best when it comes to the PG position.

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no not really at all.

Bargs is a very solid piece to have on the team. Just wouldnt be a great fit with Rondo. He would revert back to more of a spot up 3pt shooter.

He needs to pick and roll, and rondo is lighting there, but sometimes the pg in that situation needs to be able to shoot.

In Boston its more pierce or allen running the pr then Rondo
So in spite of everything else that he offers you'd turn down Rondo because he doesn't shoot it well enough for you?

I'm not sure that you realize how bad this team really is... or how much of an upgrade he'd be defensively.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 01-18-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:15 PM   #40 (permalink)
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yes he is an upgrad4e defensively. sure thing.

and it ends there.

Id rather take a youngun in the draft or see what bayless can do when he's back healthy before selling the farm for Rondo, an elite defender and a subpar offensive player.

Looking at the team as it is, or would be after getting Rondo would leave 1 offensive weapon on the team, Bargs. that is it.

And we would then have to pin alot of hopes on the development of JV, which may never happen.


I think the safest course of action is to explore other trades for the wing positions and keep the pick.

And lets not forget there is a few real solid looking pgs coming through in the draft in the late teens

Last edited by Snooch; 01-18-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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