Should Jay Give Bayless Jose Minutes?
Old 03-08-2011, 01:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Raptors Should Jay Give Bayless Jose Minutes?

I should divulge I am a staunch basher of Jose Calderon. I hate the way he operates around the court and watching him take low percentage jumpers late in games (as he did in London) is my personal Raptors pet peeve. I also believe his assist numbers are inflated by playing pick'n'roll/pop game with Bargs/Bosh.

Anyways here is my argument for why Bayless should get starters minutes over Jose - I don't really care who starts however.

1) Bayless has potential worth to the team. The Raps have been successful in allowing young players to struggle on the court like Derozan/Davis and Bayless is a tireless worker who deserves a chance. He needs the reps though.

2) Statistics: As a starter this season (only 7 game sample size) Bayless has put up decent numbers ~~> 14.4 PPG/46.3 FG%/4.0 REB/7.4 AST/.9 STL

And in the last 5 games Bayless hasn't been far off Calderon's productivity with minutes adjusted...
Bayless: 10.54 PPG/41 FG%/5.44 REB/6.8 AST/1.02 STL/1.02 TO
Calderon: 10.4 PPG/43 FG%/5.2 REB/10.4 AST/1 STL/2 TO

3) Jose has no trade value post deadline, he struggles against starters, is a liability on defence and is slumping...he isn't in the long-term plans of the team and in the short-term this team has nothing close to competitive talent anyways...what really could be lost?

Thoughts? Am I crazy?
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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YES, and try the 3 guard setup with Jose, Jerryd and DeRozan
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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YES, and try the 3 guard setup with Jose, Jerryd and DeRozan
If you go there, I rather see Barbosa or Weems as third guard. Jerryd isn't any better than Jose on D.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If you go there, I rather see Barbosa or Weems as third guard. Jerryd isn't any better than Jose on D.
I disagree JB just needs some PT baby!!
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Bayless has terrible court visio.

And about that pick and roll/pop thing. Every team does this. How can assist numbers be inflated?
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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the hell is with everyone thinking bayless is starting potential... :/ Jose is better at this point, bayless aint any better on D and Jose is obviously better in offense, it's his thing. Let him develop some court vision before people bring this up again ...
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Bayless has terrible court visio.

And about that pick and roll/pop thing. Every team does this. How can assist numbers be inflated?
If anything, they are deflated.. especially with the frequency at which high percentage shots for us created off of Jose's assists are made.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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no. Jose does not deserve to get his minutes cut, and Jerryd hasn't done anything to deserve getting Jose's minutes.

I don't mind the idea of playing Jerryd more as a 2 guard and letting him see the court more that way.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I like Jeryd, but he is too inexperienced. Maybe next year we can talk ABOUT this. but right now. He makes very poor decisions. This is one thing Jose does very well. All i see bayless doing to get the team going is pass to barbosa and let him run the offense. and we know what barbosa does.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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In the second game in London, we were down in the 4th quarter and the group of Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, Derozan, Barbosa and Bayless built up a lead of 7 points with a few minutes to go. Enter Bargnani and Jose, and the game was history. That group was the only unit that play any sense of defense and rebounding. I would like to Triano to assemble the group of Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, James Johnson, Derozan and Bayless for some good minutes for the remaining games.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm hoping to see Bayless develop more consistency in the near future.

I think that with a little more PT he could develop quicker.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm a fan of Bayless based solely on potential. Yes, Jose is currently better than Bayless, but we've already seen Jose's best days. Bayless's best days are yet to be realized. I'd love to give him more PT to see what he can do, but for the team as a whole the first thing we need to do is get rid of Jose. We can't do that if Bayless gets Jose's minutes. We need to showcase for the rest of the season that Jose is still worth his contract and try to move him in the offseason.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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At this point I don't think you give Bayless starter's minutes, or even more minutes than Caldy for that matter.
But I do like the idea of having a lineup of
Davis, Amir, J. Johnson, Derozan and Bayless - all young guns that need to get a feel of the game. I don't mean put them in to close out games, but give this lineup some time.

The only issue with that is Davis' ability to defend other Centers, so with that we'll have to keep an eye out. But it couldn't be worse than what Bargs is doing right now could it?
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If anything, they are deflated.. especially with the frequency at which high percentage shots for us created off of Jose's assists are made.
The offense that the Raptors run is one of the most highly p'n'roll/pop in the league. Virtually every possession involves swinging the ball and using an on the ball pick. This creates space for Jose to make passes (which he is adept at making in tight areas) but it doesn't involve Jose creating opportunities for others by using his dribble, attracting defenders and breaking down the D. Jose is making the majority of his assists in p'n'r offence and fastbreak opportunities pushing the ball forward to Weems/Dero/Barbosa.

Pick'n'roll is a two-man game that isolates two players against two players to create space and movement. Considering the Raptors run so much offence for Bargs and use the p'n'r so frequently they are forcing Jose to be in circumstances where he is suppose to create space and pass to Bargs and Bargs is suppose to shoot- this is offence that by its nature gets Jose ticks in the assist column.

The Knicks run a similar offence. Raymond Felton played five years in Charlotte and he averaged 6.4 assists a year. He goes to New York and plays p'n'r with Amare and suddenly averages 9 assists in D'Antoni's offence. Since joining Denver at the trade deadline his assists have dropped back to his career average at 6.2 assists. I definitely think this offence plays to assists.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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At this point I don't think you give Bayless starter's minutes, or even more minutes than Caldy for that matter.
But I do like the idea of having a lineup of
Davis, Amir, J. Johnson, Derozan and Bayless - all young guns that need to get a feel of the game. I don't mean put them in to close out games, but give this lineup some time.

The only issue with that is Davis' ability to defend other Centers, so with that we'll have to keep an eye out. But it couldn't be worse than what Bargs is doing right now could it?
Davis has actually done a good job guarding centres.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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yes, we need bayless out there more, there's only 20 games left or so, and we've already got used to losing, might as well go all-in. Sure, a 20-game streak will look ugly today, but striking out in the draft will hurt a lot more.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Bayless doesn't seen to have court smarts.... some guys have it, some don't.

Jose makes him look like a HS player though.

I think people here have some pretty misguided idea's about how good Calderon is.

He gets hurt way to often, but his actual game play and understanding.... sorry guys, the guys is a very good PG.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i wouldn't give blayless extra minutes for two reasons. First he's not even that good. He cant even pass, missing the same part of his brain that barbosa is.

Secondly jose is on a roll right now, why spoil it? people say they want jose traded well what better way to keep him here then to bench him when hes on a streak with dimes pissing out of his ass left and right. If he finishes the season shooting well hosing 10 dime per then there might actually be hope for getting something for him in the offseason
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Bayless doesn't seen to have court smarts.... some guys have it, some don't.

Jose makes him look like a HS player though.

I think people here have some pretty misguided idea's about how good Calderon is.

He gets hurt way to often, but his actual game play and understanding.... sorry guys, the guys is a very good PG.
It's his contract and his durability that keep clouding fan's judgement of his play.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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i wouldn't give blayless extra minutes for two reasons. First he's not even that good. He cant even pass, missing the same part of his brain that barbosa is.
Bayless averages 6.6 ast per 36 this year to Barbosa's 3.1.

Neither totals are terrible, and Bayless has been excellent at times.
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Originally Posted by GrannyFro View Post
Secondly jose is on a roll right now, why spoil it? people say they want jose traded well what better way to keep him here then to bench him when hes on a streak with dimes pissing out of his ass left and right. If he finishes the season shooting well hosing 10 dime per then there might actually be hope for getting something for him in the offseason
I agree with you here.

Perhaps we need a Peja type <5 game "injury" for Jose before the end of the season.
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