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View Poll Results: Would you trade Demar DeRozan for James Harden?
Yes. 22 40.00%
No. 33 60.00%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2011, 11:51 AM   #61 (permalink)
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I think DeMar having a lot more potential than Harden is ridiculous.
Btw, do we honestly still need to quote draftexpress scouting reports in this topic? Give me a break.

Also, someone here said that Harden is benefiting from being a perfect fit in OKC. Well, he's not.
His fit with Westbrook is horrible right now, and that's why they are using Thabo to start the games. Even though Harden was clearly their 3rd best player since the All Star break.
Westbrook is a speed moster and a huge talent, but for now he's also a ball hog with inefficient passing and an average/below average defensive player.
That's a horrible fit for Harden who's better off handling the ball a little, who needs crisp timely passes at the 3 point line, and who's not a good defender yet either.
Maybe OKC will become a good fit for him at some point with Russell developing. But right now it's not.

Overall, I think both Harden and DeRozan have All Star potential.
I think more likely than not both of them would make a couple All Star games - if they both were on a playoff team.
I don't think either of them has the talent of Vince or T-Mac or Bosh.

If I had to redraft the '09 draft, I'd go in that order:
1.Blake
2. Stephen Curry.
3. Harden.
4. Jrue Holiday (giving some bonus points for being a defensive point, which is a commodity among guys with All Star talent)
5. Tyreke (would be higher, but there's immaturity and he thinks he's a point guard when in reality he's more of a small forward)
6. Demar.

I'd be happy with DeMar if I was a Raptors fan. You guys got a steal at no.9. But he's just not a T-Mac or Vince type in terms of potential.

Last edited by ValanciunasFanboy; 08-23-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:41 PM   #62 (permalink)
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No I wouldn't Demar is a longer, more athletic guard with more promise. By the way, who would want to trade DD for Rick Ross..
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:55 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nelabai View Post
No I wouldn't Demar is a longer, more athletic guard with more promise. By the way, who would want to trade DD for Rick Ross..
Harden actually measured in with a longer wingspan and standing reach than DD according to Draft Express.
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:42 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Yep - I think as a GM of this team, it would be hard to make this deal right now. Given another scenario in terms of where the team's at, or given just another year, and it could be much easier to do the deal.

And I don't think too much is made of DeMar's potential Carp. I think the fact that it appears to be a pretty tough choice in just about everyone's minds reflects that. I don't think his ceiling is limitless by any means, and a good number of posts in support of keeping DeMar still put him relatively on par with Harden rather than comparing him to *cough*Kobe*cough*.
I still can't lie, a big part of me is really in love with Derozan, and I just hope to hell he can continue to emulate....cough cough.... mamba.
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:47 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Harden actually measured in with a longer wingspan and standing reach than DD according to Draft Express.
thats what I was thinking, harden looks pretty damn big in those vids.

Harden reminds me of more of a vet/ man than Derozan. But you know what, I think DD can get there....
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:46 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I think Demar's stats are inflated because he plays the most minutes on a team that won 22 games. He seems like an upgrade of Nick Young - equally effective offensive player although a worse shooter, a better rebounder and potentially better defender.

James Harden has potential to be a special player such as Manu Ginobili. Demar won't ever be Tracy McGrady.

On another topic we really overexaggerate our own players. Aside Demar, to predict that Ed Davis has the potential to be Jermaine O'Neal and even Jonas Valanciunas to be Tyson Chandler is pushing it. Even James Johnson sometimes gets ridiculous comparisons. All of this, whether Raptors or any NBA team, such as Kyrie Irving predictions to be the next Chris Paul are absurd. It's an overly optimistic approach to evaluating talent and those that are successful are remember (confirmation bias) but we tend to forget the losers easier.

It would be an interesting statistical analysis to evaluate 1st round picks, or at least lottery picks, of the past decade and see many lived up to their predraft comparisons, how many were all-stars, or even how many are even in the league.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:12 AM   #67 (permalink)
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James Harden is a capable play-maker, scorer, and defender.
While Demar is a decent scorer on a 27th ranked team.

Harden's ceiling, with much more pt, would be Manu Ginobili.
DeRozan's ceiling, with much added strength, would be Caron Butler
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:13 AM   #68 (permalink)
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And, yes, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on this trade.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:14 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kuzzy View Post
James Harden is a capable play-maker, scorer, and defender.
While Demar is a decent scorer on a 27th ranked team.

Harden's ceiling, with much more pt, would be Manu Ginobili.
DeRozan's ceiling, with much added strength, would be Caron Butler
I don't see much similarity between DeMarr and Butler. However, I do see him being more similar to Rudy Gay at his ceiling.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:26 AM   #70 (permalink)
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I don't see much similarity between DeMarr and Butler. However, I do see him being more similar to Rudy Gay at his ceiling.
I could see that. All he has to do is work on his rebounding a little, and his defense (a lot). And he should get there.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:36 AM   #71 (permalink)
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It would be an interesting statistical analysis to evaluate 1st round picks, or at least lottery picks, of the past decade and see many lived up to their predraft comparisons, how many were all-stars, or even how many are even in the league.
It's been done plenty of times in various forms. 82games.com did it for the last 2 decades recently.

For example, 9th picks since '89 tend to average ~460 career games with an average of 10 pts, 5 rb and 2 assists.
However this has been an extremely do-or-die pick. 30% of those guys became elite. 60% became bench players or busted.
And only 10% in between - solid players who actually do average something like 10-5-2.

In other words, DeMar so far is outperforming the field.

On the other hand, 3rd picks (like Harden) historically are the safest picks. 85% of those guys average over 20 points+rebounds+assists combined per game. Which means most of them end up as stars.

Last edited by ValanciunasFanboy; 08-24-2011 at 06:38 AM.
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