Shaq Addresses Christine Bosh - Page 7
Old 11-25-2011, 02:12 PM   #121 (permalink)
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There's nothing wasteful about a player averaging 19/9 as a third option, and then being his teams 2nd best player in the NBA finals.
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Old 11-25-2011, 02:27 PM   #122 (permalink)
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wow...seriously guys? is that concept that hard to understand? it means he could be much more useful being a 2nd option elsewhere and enjoy similar success. so its a waste of his talents to have to defer to two guys. don't you think by Bosh getting his only after bron and wade gotten theirs is a waste? how much more useful would Bosh be in chicago instead of boozer? throwing out stats does nothing here. how well he plays has nothing to do with this or how well he fills his role. its the fact that being the 3rd option his role has diminished when a player of his caliber is capable to fill a bigger role. he may be the best 3rd option ever but thats not the point
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:04 PM   #123 (permalink)
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wow...seriously guys? is that concept that hard to understand? it means he could be much more useful being a 2nd option elsewhere and enjoy similar success. so its a waste of his talents to have to defer to two guys. don't you think by Bosh getting his only after bron and wade gotten theirs is a waste? how much more useful would Bosh be in chicago instead of boozer? throwing out stats does nothing here. how well he plays has nothing to do with this or how well he fills his role. its the fact that being the 3rd option his role has diminished when a player of his caliber is capable to fill a bigger role. he may be the best 3rd option ever but thats not the point
I totally see your point panda.... as usual! haha

I think Jeff and Torrap are taking it as a dig against Bosh when in fact it's more of an indictment that he is underutilized on a team that has 2 of the game's best players with the ball in their hands.

Torrap, I'm saying that with Lebron and Wade being so fantastic on offence, I think a player that doesn't need iso's as much would be a better fit. A guy that is likely more defensive than offensive perhaps helps this, but just saying that Bosh could be much more valuable on a team with extra plays to run for him. That is all. Yes, he hits his open shots... many third stars would when playing with LBJ and Wade.... even if one is playing like crap.

To me it was awful to watch nobody on that Heat team to be able to even stay with Dirk.... Sure Bosh hit shots, but he got abused on D. This last part you may disagree with, so ignore it... but my above point still stands.
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:28 PM   #124 (permalink)
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I bet all these guys would have there way with dirk if the german economy wasn't the powerhouse of the europe and texas wasn't one of the healthiest and biggest economys in the states.

there i said it, leagues rigged, and this nowitski talk make me want to vomit. Bigman getting calls on fadeaways, makes me sick

grannyfro out
Defence it pretty easy if you're allowed to touch a guys elbow Granny.

Just sayin'
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:43 PM   #125 (permalink)
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I totally see your point panda.... as usual! haha

I think Jeff and Torrap are taking it as a dig against Bosh when in fact it's more of an indictment that he is underutilized on a team that has 2 of the game's best players with the ball in their hands.

Torrap, I'm saying that with Lebron and Wade being so fantastic on offence, I think a player that doesn't need iso's as much would be a better fit. A guy that is likely more defensive than offensive perhaps helps this, but just saying that Bosh could be much more valuable on a team with extra plays to run for him. That is all. Yes, he hits his open shots... many third stars would when playing with LBJ and Wade.... even if one is playing like crap.

To me it was awful to watch nobody on that Heat team to be able to even stay with Dirk.... Sure Bosh hit shots, but he got abused on D. This last part you may disagree with, so ignore it... but my above point still stands.
I still don't get it.... you & panda are acting like Bosh got fed scraps all the time and was lucky to get more than 8 shots in a game.

That wasn't the case.

There were quite a few games during the season AND during the playoffs where the team went to Bosh exclusively and ran the offense through him. In fact, the Heat usually looked to get him off in the 1st half of the game... and he excelled. What you guys are forgetting too is that with him there the Heat have the ability to keep TWO stars on the floor at all times. That's a luxury they wouldn't have if Bosh wasn't there... and it helped to win them a lot of game last season.

As for being able to stop Dirk.... well... lol... NO ONE is stopping Dirk. I don't care who the fak you put on him. Dude is unguardable.

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which is why i suggested that if u switch Bosh with LA or ZBO, the blazers or grizz wouldn't have accomplished what they accomplished last year...
you'll keep emphasizing his supporting cast sucks and i'll keep saying even if he had a good supporting cast, if he is still the teams best player, that team is going nowhere. just differences in opinion
And that's 100% biased opinion not based on any fact at all.

Look at the players that suit up with Zach.... Gay... Gasol... Mayo... Battier....

And POR's cast outside of LA isn't that bad either. Certainly better than ours was.

How can you simply discount that and give all of the credit/blame to 1 player??

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Old 11-25-2011, 04:53 PM   #126 (permalink)
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I still don't get it.... you & panda are acting like Bosh got fed scraps all the time and was lucky to get more than 8 shots in a game.

That wasn't the case.

There were quite a few games during the season AND during the playoffs where the team went to Bosh exclusively and ran the offense through him. In fact, the Heat usually looked to get him off in the 1st half of the game... and he excelled. What you guys are forgetting too is that with him there the Heat have the ability to keep TWO stars on the floor at all times. That's a luxury they wouldn't have if Bosh wasn't there... and it helped to win them a lot of game last season.

As for being able to stop Dirk.... well... lol... NO ONE is stopping Dirk. I don't care who the fak you put on him. Dude is unguardable.
you're starting to talk about something else here (the fact that Bosh is a 3rd option). since u took exception to what i said about it being a waste for Bosh to be a 3rd option, that's all i will address.

being a 3rd option does not mean that every game hes gonna take the 3rd most shots. are there gonna be games where they feature him more? yes. are there going to be games where james and wade have off nights and he steps up to be the player of the game? sure. but he is still the 3rd option

imagine a guy with a MBA being a plumber. he may be the best plumber in town. but its a waste. thats what i'm saying and that's all i'm saying

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Old 11-25-2011, 05:00 PM   #127 (permalink)
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And that's 100% biased opinion not based on any fact at all.

Look at the players that suit up with Zach.... Gay... Gasol... Mayo... Battier....

And POR's cast outside of LA isn't that bad either. Certainly better than ours was.

How can you simply discount that and give all of the credit/blame to 1 player??

couple things wrong here:
1. you made the effort to bold one part of my reply and yet you don't understand it. i said if u switch Bosh with LA or ZBO, the blazers or grizz wouldn't have accomplished what they accomplished last year. meaning Bosh is now on the grizz instead of ZBO and now Bosh has that supporting cast that ZBO had!!!!! i don't now what else to say here that i can make this any clearer.....

2. its like you only read one part of my posts (the parts u bold) and you completely ignore the rest. i said, "you'll keep emphasizing his supporting cast sucks and i'll keep saying even if he had a good supporting cast, if he is still the teams best player, that team is going nowhere. just differences in opinion" and you reply with "And that's 100% biased opinion not based on any fact at all."
WHAT?!?!?!
and how is it that you think if Bosh has a good supporting cast his team could go somewhere.....isn't that 100% biased opinion as well?!

man oh man.....

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Old 11-25-2011, 07:31 PM   #128 (permalink)
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you're starting to talk about something else here (the fact that Bosh is a 3rd option). since u took exception to what i said about it being a waste for Bosh to be a 3rd option, that's all i will address.

being a 3rd option does not mean that every game hes gonna take the 3rd most shots. are there gonna be games where they feature him more? yes. are there going to be games where james and wade have off nights and he steps up to be the player of the game? sure. but he is still the 3rd option

imagine a guy with a MBA being a plumber. he may be the best plumber in town. but its a waste. thats what i'm saying and that's all i'm saying
And I'm saying that it's not a waste if his talents are being utilized (which they were) and the team is winning (which they did).

What's so hard to understand about that? He avgd about 18 & 9 last season. When he avgd 23 + 12 here with us people were saying he was "just another decent player on a bad team" and that we shouldn't read too much into it.

So what's the deal? How exactly is he being "wasted" when he's an integral part of the best team in the EC?

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couple things wrong here:
1. you made the effort to bold one part of my reply and yet you don't understand it. i said if u switch Bosh with LA or ZBO, the blazers or grizz wouldn't have accomplished what they accomplished last year. meaning Bosh is now on the grizz instead of ZBO and now Bosh has that supporting cast that ZBO had!!!!! i don't now what else to say here that i can make this any clearer.....

2. its like you only read one part of my posts (the parts u bold) and you completely ignore the rest. i said, "you'll keep emphasizing his supporting cast sucks and i'll keep saying even if he had a good supporting cast, if he is still the teams best player, that team is going nowhere. just differences in opinion" and you reply with "And that's 100% biased opinion not based on any fact at all."
WHAT?!?!?!
and how is it that you think if Bosh has a good supporting cast his team could go somewhere.....isn't that 100% biased opinion as well?!

man oh man.....
You must think that Bosh is pretty darn bad if you don't think that he could have excelled playing alongside Gasol (a big, strong, LEGIT C), Gay (a great shooting and slashing wingman) and Battier (a great defender, 3pt shooter, and leader).

You could put ANY good PF in that situation (Pau, Amare, Griffin, Love, LA etc) and they would have looked good. Jeez. Zach has one really playoff series and people suddenly think he was a God for the whole season.

Likewise... what do you think our record would have been if we would have had Zach HERE last season playing with Bargs and a rookie DD? Do you really think that we would have made the playoffs? Have you forgotten what Zach looked like on the Knicks and the Clippers??
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:57 PM   #129 (permalink)
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And I'm saying that it's not a waste if his talents are being utilized (which they were) and the team is winning (which they did).

What's so hard to understand about that? He avgd about 18 & 9 last season. When he avgd 23 + 12 here with us people were saying he was "just another decent player on a bad team" and that we shouldn't read too much into it.

So what's the deal? How exactly is he being "wasted" when he's an integral part of the best team in the EC?
i give up.....it seems it doesn't matter how much i try to dumb down the concept you still won't get it
going back to my analogy, ur reply is like saying "that guy with the MBA is not wasting his talents being a plumber if his talents are being utilized and toilets are being fixed"

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Old 11-25-2011, 08:02 PM   #130 (permalink)
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You must think that Bosh is pretty darn bad if you don't think that he could have excelled playing alongside Gasol (a big, strong, LEGIT C), Gay (a great shooting and slashing wingman) and Battier (a great defender, 3pt shooter, and leader).
i didn't say he wouldn't excel, i said if he were on the grizz instead of zbo, they woudn't have accomplished as much of what they did last year. ie, being an 8th seed that upset SA. heck, i doubt they would have made the playoffs. difference was when Gay went down ZBO stepped up big and it wasn't like he wasn't playing well before that (he made the all star team). so he elavated his game further. i seriously doubt Bosh would have done the same in the same situation.

please understand what the argument is about before replying....your like replying to what u interpret my posts to be and i think i have to defend myself and then i stop and go, oh wait....what? thats not what i even said and don't need to defend myself anymore but find that i have to further explain so you understand....
you are very skilled in the art of mind fucking

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Old 11-25-2011, 08:28 PM   #131 (permalink)
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You're not making much sense Panda. "I didnt' say he wouldn't excel"...and yet..."I doubt they would have made the playoffs".

Yes not the same thing, but you're kind of coming close to a contradiction. From what I can tell you're saying Zach Randolph is a better Power Forward then CB. Torap is simply disagreeing. What is stressing you out?


I personally think when we look back 15 years from now Bosh will have had one hell of a career. Dude has been solid despite lacking some passion. He's gone through some off-court issues at the ripe age of 25. I think his best years are ahead of him and a lot of people here have forgotten how skilled CB really is. He still has the potential and opportunity to be the best NBA bigman in his generation.

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Old 11-25-2011, 08:44 PM   #132 (permalink)
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You're not making much sense Panda. "I didnt' say he wouldn't excel"...and yet..."I doubt they would have made the playoffs".

Yes not the same thing, but you're kind of coming close to a contradiction. From what I can tell you're saying Zach Randolph is a better Power Forward then CB. Torap is simply disagreeing. What is stressing you out?


I personally think when we look back 15 years from now Bosh will have had one hell of a career. Dude has been solid despite lacking some passion. He's gone through some off-court issues at the ripe age of 25. I think his best years are ahead of him and a lot of people here have forgotten how skilled CB really is. He still has the potential and opportunity to be the best NBA bigman in his generation.
i think the fact that theres 2 things going on at once makes it confusing. its like when he was a raptor. he excelled. all star every year, great numbers etc etc. but no team success. so no contradiction there. which is what i'm saying it would be like if he took the place of zach. or any other situation where he is the best player on the team. thats all. and torraps is saying he could have team success with a decent supporting cast. i pointed out, its just a difference of opinion, and i doubt bosh's future career would play out to prove either situation. so no need to go further. but somehow he misunderstood that and i just fell in the trap of trying to explain it better.

the 2nd thing is that i felt with bosh's talents and what he is capable of, he is not a good, but a great 2nd option. so him being the 3rd option in miami, i felt was a waste. i don't understand why thats so hard to understand. i really think that if Bosh was in chicago instead of boozer, they would have won the championship last year. he would be the 2nd option. all the focus is on drose. he's playing with a real center for the first time in his career....etc

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Old 11-25-2011, 09:08 PM   #133 (permalink)
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I completely see Panda's point and it has merit... I think it's taken as criticism of Bosh but it's not.... maybe he's winning in Miami, but by taking the easy road, he's not maximizing his skills as a third option there. That is all.

Good job panda, I understood fully despite not agreeing that Bosh is a great second star for a team either but that's absolutely irrelevant to your point.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:17 PM   #134 (permalink)
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i think the fact that theres 2 things going on at once makes it confusing. its like when he was a raptor. he excelled. all star every year, great numbers etc etc. but no team success. so no contradiction there. which is what i'm saying it would be like if he took the place of zach. or any other situation where he is the best player on the team. thats all. and torraps is saying he could have team success with a decent supporting cast. i pointed out, its just a difference of opinion, and i doubt bosh's future career would play out to prove either situation. so no need to go further. but somehow he misunderstood that and i just fell in the trap of trying to explain it better.

the 2nd thing is that i felt with bosh's talents and what he is capable of, he is not a good, but a great 2nd option. so him being the 3rd option in miami, i felt was a waste. i don't understand why thats so hard to understand. i really think that if Bosh was in chicago instead of boozer, they would have won the championship last year. he would be the 2nd option. all the focus is on drose. he's playing with a real center for the first time in his career....etc
So you don't feel as though Bosh would have been good enough to make the playoffs with that MEM team, but you DO think that he could have won a championship with CHI minus Boozer?

And you think that I'M confusing?

I'll lay out my main points one last time and be as clear as possible.

The Raptors minus Bosh SUCKED. This point cannot be argued and you'd have to have been on another planet for the last 5-7 years to think other wise. We got to see firsthand just how much they suck without Bosh THIS PAST SEASON. Therefore, it shouldn't be surprising that we didn't have a ton of success with him here. 1 player does not a team make.

The Heat are currently the best team in the Eastern Conference and went to the finals in their first season together. Bosh was 3rd in the pecking order of stars to be sure, but he fit into their system very well and had a very good season in spite of the fact that he didn't get as many touches as he did when he was here. He remained one of the best PFs in the game and excelled in some big, big games both during the regular season AND during the playoffs. He played well and his team won 60 games. The idea that his talents were "wasted" because he wasn't the 1st or 2nd option is something that I don't understand. Basketball is a TEAM game.. and he fit the team's needs to a T.

Zach Randolph has always been a talented player and a beast of a PF (when he's motivated and not in trouble with the law). His skillset is probably closer to Bosh's than any other PF in the game right now. He's a gifted scorer who can post up, put it the floor AND shoot the ball.... while being spotty defensively at times. He had a GREAT series against the Spurs... no one's going to argue that fact... but that doesn't mean that he's suddenly a God capable of producing a Lebron-like turnaround for a crappy team. He's played on crappy teams before and those teams have flat-out SUCKED. Period.

If you just like Zach more than Bosh then that's cool.... everyone's allowed to have their opinion... I'm just not a fan of people slagging on Bosh because they're mad at how he left (or upset that he couldn't singlehandedly lead us further than he did).
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:18 PM   #135 (permalink)
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I completely see Panda's point and it has merit... I think it's taken as criticism of Bosh but it's not.... maybe he's winning in Miami, but by taking the easy road, he's not maximizing his skills as a third option there. That is all.

Good job panda, I understood fully despite not agreeing that Bosh is a great second star for a team either but that's absolutely irrelevant to your point.
thank you! i was starting to believe i was crazy!
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:21 PM   #136 (permalink)
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I completely see Panda's point and it has merit... I think it's taken as criticism of Bosh but it's not.... maybe he's winning in Miami, but by taking the easy road, he's not maximizing his skills as a third option there. That is all.

Good job panda, I understood fully despite not agreeing that Bosh is a great second star for a team either but that's absolutely irrelevant to your point.
What exactly does that mean?

That statement seems incredibly ambiguous to me.... Bosh isn't "riding coattails" the way that Payton did at the end of his career.... he's ACTIVELY contributing... in BIG ways, I might add.

I don't understand why you feel as though he NEEDS to have the offense run through him 24/7 when people were critical of him when he did that here.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:27 PM   #137 (permalink)
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So you don't feel as though Bosh would have been good enough to make the playoffs with that MEM team, but you DO think that he could have won a championship with CHI minus Boozer?

And you think that I'M confusing?
he would have been the best player on memphis, while being 2nd best in chicago. whats so confusing? it goes with what i've been saying this whole time.

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The Raptors minus Bosh SUCKED. This point cannot be argued and you'd have to have been on another planet for the last 5-7 years to think other wise. We got to see firsthand just how much they suck without Bosh THIS PAST SEASON. Therefore, it shouldn't be surprising that we didn't have a ton of success with him here. 1 player does not a team make.
has no relevance with what i'm talking about

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The Heat are currently the best team in the Eastern Conference and went to the finals in their first season together. Bosh was 3rd in the pecking order of stars to be sure, but he fit into their system very well and had a very good season in spite of the fact that he didn't get as many touches as he did when he was here. He remained one of the best PFs in the game and excelled in some big, big games both during the regular season AND during the playoffs. He played well and his team won 60 games. The idea that his talents were "wasted" because he wasn't the 1st or 2nd option is something that I don't understand. Basketball is a TEAM game.. and he fit the team's needs to a T.
i'll try a different look. you're great at basketball and baseball. but ur better at basketball than you are at baseball, but great at both. and you chose baseball. that is a waste.

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Zach Randolph has always been a talented player and a beast of a PF (when he's motivated and not in trouble with the law). His skillset is probably closer to Bosh's than any other PF in the game right now. He's a gifted scorer who can post up, put it the floor AND shoot the ball.... while being spotty defensively at times. He had a GREAT series against the Spurs... no one's going to argue that fact... but that doesn't mean that he's suddenly a God capable of producing a Lebron-like turnaround for a crappy team. He's played on crappy teams before and those teams have flat-out SUCKED. Period.
why bring this up again? i said difference of opinion, lets move on

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If you just like Zach more than Bosh then that's cool.... everyone's allowed to have their opinion... I'm just not a fan of people slagging on Bosh because they're mad at how he left (or upset that he couldn't singlehandedly lead us further than he did).
my knock on Bosh is i think if he's the best player on ur team, that team's going nowhere. it's an opinion. i don't hate him.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:38 PM   #138 (permalink)
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I think too much gets made of being option 1-2 or 3. It's about how the team succeeds and how the pieces fit and work together. Bosh can easily prove to be a key part of a very successful team. Lo and behold, Miami did not fizzle out while trying to figure out whose team it was. They made it about the team rather than the individual. Bosh just needs to carry on with greater consistency, as a guy that is essential to his team on both ends. It just doesn't matter how that gets compared to ZBo - as he is proving essential in other ways to the success of his team. What will matter will be how far the respective teams get. Does anybody think Kevin McHale would have been better off as a starter for the Nets?
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:55 PM   #139 (permalink)
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he would have been the best player on memphis, while being 2nd best in chicago. whats so confusing? it goes with what i've been saying this whole time.
He would have also been playing with a legit C and a star SF.... to take some pressure off him scoring... 2 things that he NEVER had in Toronto. And MEM is at least capable of playing SOME defense... Toronto just couldn't.

So again... I don't see why Bosh couldn't have flourished on a team like that.


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has no relevance with what i'm talking about
Really? Then why say this? (below)


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my knock on Bosh is i think if he's the best player on ur team, that team's going nowhere. it's an opinion. i don't hate him.

Just sounds like you're kind of contradicting yourself is all. At any rate, sounds like the argument is pretty much dead at this point.
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:01 PM   #140 (permalink)
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my 2 main points are, in short: 1) Bosh being 3rd option is being wasted 2) if Bosh is the best player on your team that team is going now where

what this has to do with anything i dont' know:

Quote:
The Raptors minus Bosh SUCKED. This point cannot be argued and you'd have to have been on another planet for the last 5-7 years to think other wise. We got to see firsthand just how much they suck without Bosh THIS PAST SEASON. Therefore, it shouldn't be surprising that we didn't have a ton of success with him here. 1 player does not a team make.
i replied this has no relevance with what i'm saying
and thats a contradiction?
i don't see the connection man....

Last edited by powerfulpanda; 11-25-2011 at 10:09 PM.
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