Shaq Addresses Christine Bosh - Page 2
Old 11-15-2011, 08:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Take Shaq off those teams and they don't win.

Take Bosh off the Heat and start any somewhat competent PF and they still make the Finals.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Take Shaq off those teams and they don't win.

Take Bosh off the Heat and start any somewhat competent PF and they still make the Finals.
That's certainly popular opinion.... which I find interesting since most of the "big games" that I saw (reg. season matchups with the Lakers and the Spurs + the playoffs) showed Bosh playing very, very well and doing things "somewhat competent PFs" couldn't. He owned the Bulls hard in the EC Finals.

No-win situation for him really.

If he plays well all the credit goes to Wade/Lebron.

If he DOESN'T play well all the blame goes to him alone.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
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LOL..... Tim Duncan and Karl Malone are probably the 2 greatest PFs ever to play the game (both also played on great teams from Day 1). There are MANY, many PFs who will never compare favourably to either of those guys.

As for top centers of all time?

I would put Hakeem right under Wilt. Never seen a C with footwork and defensive ability like his (Hakeem's). True all around game.

Shaq's not in their league.
Well I've only read about Bill and Wilt but I'll just give them their just due. As for Kareem I've only seen half of his career and really wouldn't put dream and shaq above any for various reasons.

Saying that to say Shaq is not in the league of these guys is just insanity but you started your comparison by implying that Bosh ia in the league of Shaq so its not worth my argument. Anyways I've gone off topic on this thread enough I'll be back when this argument has relevance ot the thread
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Well I've only read about Bill and Wilt but I'll just give them their just due. As for Kareem I've only seen half of his career and really wouldn't put dream and shaq above any for various reasons.

Saying that to say Shaq is not in the league of these guys is just insanity but you started your comparison with included Bosh in the league of Shaq so its not worth my argument. Anyways I've gone off topic on this thread enough I'll be back when this argument has relevance ot the thread
No... I didn't.

As a single player there's no comparison at all...

Shaq > Bosh all day every day

I was simply arguing against the idea that "Toronto couldn't win because Bosh wasn't good enough".

THAT is simply assinine given the sad-sack bunch of role players that we've had here for the past 7-8 seasons.

Bosh played his ass off for us consistently. Unfortunately 1 guy does not a team make.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:14 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Bosh was widely considered the MVP of the east finals, so Acie's statement doesn't really ring true. Quite the opposite could be true.

Shaq was a dominant talent. He doesn't need to try to be petty over a guy like Bosh.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:01 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Will buy the book now

Lol that he was the MVP... when you don't play D and don't get guarded or doulbed its easy to look better

And Shaq is top 10 or 25 all time or so. Anything but is retarded

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Old 11-15-2011, 10:08 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Bosh won them one game in the Eastern Conference Finals.

The Bulls tried let him score and take away Lebron and Wade. It worked to perfection in Game 1. Game 2,4 and 5 James was the catalyst to their victiories.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Bosh won them one game in the Eastern Conference Finals.

The Bulls tried let him score and take away Lebron and Wade. It worked to perfection in Game 1. Game 2,4 and 5 James was the catalyst to their victiories.
I refuse to look at the game in terms of individual players being responsible for successes. Look at how Dallas won the Finals, with solid contributions from everyone, so they didn't need to rely on one or two guys in the face of some stiff defense. The Heat were able to not rely solely on Lebron in the east finals, a luxury the Cavs could have used. And they couldn't count on Wade. It was Bosh that provided the breathing space, as the most consistent player throughout the series, regardless of what the Bull did. He hit numerous clutch shots, and held his covers to low totals, while playing a big part in slowing down Rose. Lebron was good, but Bosh was key in terms of what the team did overall, and was widely considered as the MVP of that series.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:03 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Bosh won them one game in the Eastern Conference Finals.

The Bulls tried let him score and take away Lebron and Wade. It worked to perfection in Game 1. Game 2,4 and 5 James was the catalyst to their victiories.
Any villian team would take losing 1 in 4 by letting him score. It just confirms he's terrible on the whole. losing one in 4 is variance.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:39 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I refuse to look at the game in terms of individual players being responsible for successes. Look at how Dallas won the Finals, with solid contributions from everyone, so they didn't need to rely on one or two guys in the face of some stiff defense. The Heat were able to not rely solely on Lebron in the east finals, a luxury the Cavs could have used. And they couldn't count on Wade. It was Bosh that provided the breathing space, as the most consistent player throughout the series, regardless of what the Bull did. He hit numerous clutch shots, and held his covers to low totals, while playing a big part in slowing down Rose. Lebron was good, but Bosh was key in terms of what the team did overall, and was widely considered as the MVP of that series.
Yes.

And the reference to Dirk & Dallas is bang on.... The Mavs didn't win the title because Dirk was better than he's ever been (he's been awesome for pretty much the last decade or so).... they won because his supporting cast was better than it's ever been. Marion... Kidd... Chandler... those guys made the difference. And Terry played like a star instead of choking like he did in the past.

Why do you think D12 wants out of ORL now? Because he sees the crap that's around him at the moment and realizes that he's probably going to end up taking the blame for ORL's playoff flameouts for the next 5-7 years.

Too hard to go it alone for any length of time.... even Mr. Ultimate competitor Kobe Bryant knew that.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:39 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Chris Bosh Gets Pissed Media Doesn't Care to Ask Him Questions - YouTube
The media did a piss poor job of handling his press conference right there. They could've cordially motioned him to make way for the next folk up. Instead they left him hanging.


@ DVS I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think Hakeem the Dream is the best pivot ever. At least his 93-94 & 94-95 seasons are the best years a center has ever had. I'm sure even Shaq would agree if he's being completely honest (and I think he even said as much, a long time ago). His Orlando Magic were the best team in the East, and the 6th seeded Rockets swept them, *AFTER* taking out the other top 3 teams (total top 4 with Orlando) in the league before facing them! Made good ol'Shaq cry at the end of it, he did.
------

Anyways, Shaq is sure talking alot for a guy who was on the bench in late 4th Qtrs during his '06 Finals. OTOH, Chris juss hit a gm-winning shot in his 1st NBA Finals. The play was drawn up for him as the primary option to boot.

If he's gonna talk, why not talk of how Lebitch completely choked in 2010 when they were teammates despite having roleplayers at every position that fit perfectly around him, and then had nothing to give in the 2011 Finals despite playing with DWade & Chris?
------------------

Anyways, it'd be funny if Shaq & Chris are actually friends and they're juss doing this to set up a bigger thing at a later date.

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Old 11-16-2011, 02:25 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Take Shaq off those teams and they don't win.

Take Bosh off the Heat and start any somewhat competent PF and they still make the Finals.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:56 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Now he helped slow down Rose? What's next? He enabled Jeol Anthony to block shots? He enabled Lebron to average more points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals? He helped Spo outcoach Thibodeau?

Unbelievable.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:49 AM   #34 (permalink)
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wow, some really good and heated debate on this one!

IMO, Bosh was an important player for the heat. He had bad moments where it was focussed on way too much and he had good moments where it wasn't focussed on enough.

Not sure i'm really accepting that the bulls let Bosh have good games to try and control wade and james. not in the same way atlanta did with howard. It doesn't really work when the players are as good as wade and james and my understanding is it's not really a tactic you apply for a whole series, more a tactic you and try and shock the opposition with in 1 or 2 of the games. Bosh was solid in that series and wade and james played big at times too, bulls were a bit disappointing, thought they had a good chance to take out miami. They have their own issues with over-reliance on rose on offence imo.

not sure where Bosh stands in terms of best PFs in the league, it's so hard comparing him to players like love on poor teams. This has been gone over quite a lot before, but for me he's up their with stoud and aldridge.

hate the guy for leaving the raps in the lurch (imagine if we'd done a trade for him like anthony, we could have had another decent player and maybe a pick out of it,) but the guy is a very good player.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Now he helped slow down Rose? What's next? He enabled Jeol Anthony to block shots? He enabled Lebron to average more points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals? He helped Spo outcoach Thibodeau?

Unbelievable.
Jesus - it was only discussed by the commentators throughout the series. He was coming out and showing hard, and recovering well, as a very disruptive force on defense. But of course any old PF could have done that. Or I suppose Rose stopped himself.

There was one game, outside of game three, in crunch time, where he got a steal, a blocked shot, and took a charge, on three consecutive possessions, while hitting a basket late in the shot clock, and going to the line.

And yes he did help Anthony, Spo, and everyone else, by playing an efficient team game and filling his role as it was meant to be filled, to near perfection. No it was not his greatness as an individual, it was about him fitting the schemes as he was meant to, benefitting from others doing the same, and in the process tilting the balance far into the Heat's favor. Understanding basketball as a team game isn't that hard is it?

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Old 11-16-2011, 08:54 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Take Shaq off those teams and they don't win.

Take Bosh off the Heat and start any somewhat competent PF and they still make the Finals.
BS, take Bosh outta South Beach and they're bounced by the Bulls. The Heat have one true superstar that can carry a team when it matters and that's Wade. I liken Bosh to Pippen - always a contributor and occasionally can take over a game or series - and that's not a bad thing. IF the Heat actually used Bosh like he could have, they win the title. I expect more this coming year.

As for Shaq, who cares what he has to say anymore - no one really does. Shaq is one of the greatest players of all time but the more he opens his mouth and continually spews unintelligent shit all the time will continue to tarnish and take away from his legacy IMHO.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:11 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Jesus - it was only discussed by the commentators throughout the series. He was coming out and showing hard, and recovering well, as a very disruptive force on defense. But of course any old PF could have done that. Or I suppose Rose stopped himself.

There was one game, outside of game three, in crunch time, where he got a steal, a blocked shot, and took a charge, on three consecutive possessions, while hitting a basket late in the shot clock, and going to the line.

And yes he did help Anthony, Spo, and everyone else, by playing an efficient team game and filling his role as it was meant to be filled, to near perfection. No it was not his greatness as an individual, it was about him fitting the schemes as he was meant to, benefitting from others doing the same, and in the process tilting the balance far into the Heat's favor. Understanding basketball as a team game isn't that hard is it?
So Bosh is a role player.

Cool.

That was Shaq's point.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:20 AM   #38 (permalink)
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So Bosh is a role player.

Cool.

That was Shaq's point.
And my point is that everyone is a role player. It's a team game.

I thought Shaq was simply griping about the chest-pounding, which I can see as being a negative attribute, although he isn't really one to talk. I guess once you reach a certain level of stardom you're allowed to be demonstrative? Not much of a point. Petty and beneath him discussing in a book.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:35 AM   #39 (permalink)
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And my point is that everyone is a role player. It's a team game.

I thought Shaq was simply griping about the chest-pounding, which I can see as being a negative attribute, although he isn't really one to talk. I guess once you reach a certain level of stardom you're allowed to be demonstrative? Not much of a point. Petty and beneath him discussing in a book.
It's a team game where in order to be succesful, a team requires an elite level superstar type of player. Miami has two in Wade and Lebron, the Mavs have Dirk, the Bulls have Rose, etc...

Shaq was saying Bosh was trying to pretend he's one of the big boys, when he's not.

And Shaq has always been very candid and at times controversial. Remember the Sacramento Queens, mocking Asians when asked about Yao, Kobe tell me how my ass tastes, etc....I don't understand why anyone would be shocked or surprised by his book, unless he says bad things about someone's pride and joy.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:34 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Take Shaq off those teams and they don't win.

Take Bosh off the Heat and start any somewhat competent PF and they still make the Finals.
It's true. Shaq is right..... Bosh is a good role player but not good enough to carry a team into relevancy, as he had been made to seem. It's kind of sad how the game has gone, it's more about trying to create stars and not let them emerge on their own.

It's not Bosh's fault that he was talked up as a franchise-level talent, it's just sad that he believed it to actually be true. I think he'll continue to do well in Miami given all the defensive attention Wade and Lebron garner, but if he was a more defensive force in the paint I'm confident Miami would have won their first of multiple championships last year. He's basically filling the same role an aged McDyess is filling in SA right now but for max money. He's doing it well, but it's quite telling.
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