ShamSports: Raps Fans are insufferable and overrate Bryan Colangelo - Page 5

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Old 09-09-2009, 09:52 PM   #81 (permalink)
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BC is too competitive and too intelligent to do something like that
Ya it was just incompetence and poor decision making on BC's part.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:54 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Ya it was just incompetence and poor decision making on BC's part.
You mean the moves he made last summer, that had most here blowing a load over.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:58 PM   #83 (permalink)
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i just don't see that at all jakkal. it was clear at the time (and i posted my thoughts here about it several times) that bc was trading for a guy that he thought would help, but that was a risk, and if that risk turned out to be a failure it still had the value of being an expiring contract in 2010 that could either make room to get a guy to pair with Bosh or be traded to a team trying to clear space for the fa bonanza. it was widely discussed at the time that toronto might be better off being a player before 2010, so that expiring contract might be traded. lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.

sure he took a risk, and that risk failed. but all along there was a solid plan b which was actualized. to me that's foresight. taking risks is a good thing. if he didn't have a backup plan i would call him incompetent, but he did. that's just good planning.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:02 PM   #84 (permalink)
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As much as i disagree with you about your assesment of Bryan Colangelo, i agree with you 100% about Burke.
You can disagree about BC if you want but it's a fact that he doesn't know the rules and contracts like he should.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:02 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, plan B also cost them a first rounder and having to take on Banks, which I suppose is the cost of doing business.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:10 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, plan B also cost them a first rounder and having to take on Banks, which I suppose is the cost of doing business.
First of all the first round pick is protected for 5yrs so honestly i couldn't care less and considering BC picked up 4 1st round picks this summer that are all 25yrs and under i really couldn't care less.

Jack (1st rounder)
Derozan (1st rounder)
Belinelli (1st rounder)
Wright (1st rounder)
And add to that Bargnani who's a 23yr old first overall pick

As for Banks, that sucked but yes, was the cost of doing business.

Last edited by jeffb; 09-09-2009 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:15 PM   #87 (permalink)
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I have a feeling jakkal is really ugoferst in disguise. It's been a while since I've seen ugo on the forum, and he was the other member who had an irrational hate for colangelo.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:21 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, plan B also cost them a first rounder and having to take on Banks, which I suppose is the cost of doing business.
you're missing the point. What plan B did was to bring turkoglu, wright and belinelli this summer. The cost for that was tj ford, two non-lottery picks, and two seasons of overpaying banks (and the 2nd season he will actually be an asset as an expiring contract). You CAN'T POSSIBLY call that a bad deal.

Even if you don't like turkoglu, we've traded TJ for two starters and a very intriguing prospect. 17th+ picks rarely turn into nba players, and even less common to become starters. Considering what deals tj was attracting that summer (diaw, magette etc), it's by far the best option.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #89 (permalink)
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I have a feeling jakkal is really ugoferst in disguise. It's been a while since I've seen ugo on the forum, and he was the other member who had an irrational hate for colangelo.
not a chance. jakkal is a well thought out guy that researches and provides info. ugo was a bonehead that got banned. i promise you they're about as far apart as day and night...
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:25 PM   #90 (permalink)
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not a chance. jakkal is a well thought out guy that researches and provides info. ugo was a bonehead that got banned. i promise you they're about as far apart as day and night...
Banned? When did that happen, and where was i?
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:52 PM   #91 (permalink)
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You mean the moves he made last summer, that had most here blowing a load over.
Yup. Not only was he incompetent in not figuring out to include Marion in the deal but he almost screwed it because he didn't know Douby couldn't be traded. Luckily his flunky saved BC by getting him to include Marion.

I'm not dissing him for his poor judge of talent (although he's shown poor judgement in other trades) and I'm not dissing him for his inability to wheel and deal. I am dissing him for knowledge of the rules. Something he should know by heart.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:59 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I have a feeling jakkal is really ugoferst in disguise. It's been a while since I've seen ugo on the forum, and he was the other member who had an irrational hate for colangelo.
Who said I hate BC? I like him. I just think he's incompetent at certain parts of his job.




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Old 09-09-2009, 11:09 PM   #93 (permalink)
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not a chance. jakkal is a well thought out guy that researches and provides info. ugo was a bonehead that got banned. i promise you they're about as far apart as day and night...
lol Guess I can't argue with that.

Trane knows as probably most members do, I don't jump on board as quickly as most fans by believing all the hype. I wait for proof.

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Old 09-10-2009, 07:14 AM   #94 (permalink)
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We could be sitting here looking at Boris Diaw and little else in return for TJ. That wouldn't have changed much in the way of how last season turned out, and it wouldn't produce much of a glow around this season. Colangelo instead pulled the trigger on a deal with options behind it. What a stretch to think such a thing.

Do people think that Riley dealt for JO because he thought that would be the ticket to helping his team longterm? That contract is putting a stranglehold on what he is able to do this offseason, and he knew it would. So he is in fact ready to toss this season aside in return for some real options next season. Does that just blow your mind to have me suggest that! Freaky. And you probably thought he was either to smart and competitive to do that, or too smart to actually have a plan for the long term.

Long term options are not easy to come by. Getting a team to the point of a degree of certainty over a few years is not something to shy away from. Colangelo still has a hurdle or two to get there, but he would be sinking in quicksand if he had just settled for Diaw.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:18 AM   #95 (permalink)
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That contract is putting a stranglehold on what he is able to do this offseason, and he knew it would.
Yes, but HE'S doing it on purpose. Colangelo didn't mean for last year to be a disaster. But once it became apparent that it was, he had to change tack. He's changed it well, but that doesn't change what his intent was.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:43 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Hey jeffb, you're right the writer does come off as a condescending asshole, but that doesn't make what he wrote incorrect! When your right your right, asshole or not. (The writer not you)
rapsdabest didn't say everything in the article was false, just that it was awful. Not mutually exclusive.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:24 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I really don't understand where this is coming from. Ever since we traded for jo, it was clear that if he doesn't work, we'd get a lot of flexibility from his huge expiring contract. Which it turned out we did, by trading him for cap space in 2009, which we used to sign a top fa (one that bryan wanted for a long time), AND dramatically improve the bench.

I just don't see how this is poor judgement. If anything, it shows again that all the moves bryan makes are well thought for the immediate and for the future. Even the moves we made this summer are well thought to keep us under the potentially dramatically lower luxury cap of next summer.


And don't forget, all he's done is even more impressive when you consider toronto's reputation among some FAs as an undesirable destination. For all intents and purposes, toronto would be a much more desireable place for wade to come, than for Bosh to go there. With wade, we'd be the favorite to win a title. And yet, all the talk is how Bosh will leave, and the fact that wade could come here is not even considered (rightfully so).
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:05 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Yes, but HE'S doing it on purpose. Colangelo didn't mean for last year to be a disaster. But once it became apparent that it was, he had to change tack. He's changed it well, but that doesn't change what his intent was.
He didn't mean for it to be a disaster, but he sure as hell was looking beyond last season more than he was concerned with last season. If you want to make out like JO was clearly a part of his longterm vision then fine. I can certainly understand why you think he sucks. I thought he sucked all last season, because of Hassan Adams and Will Solomon and all of the BS that he spewed about the coaching and how there wasn't a lack of athleticism. But ultimately he hasn't changed tack at all, and he doesn't have to try to lie his way through explanations. He's gone out and gotten all the players that just weren't there for him until now, and until he had the ability to spend on them. Nobody is going to convince me he intended to build around three power forwards at 55 million per year and forego ever getting the wing players we so desperately needed, and which he recognized the need for before JO arrived.
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:21 PM   #99 (permalink)
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you're missing the point. What plan B did was to bring turkoglu, wright and belinelli this summer. The cost for that was tj ford, two non-lottery picks, and two seasons of overpaying banks (and the 2nd season he will actually be an asset as an expiring contract). You CAN'T POSSIBLY call that a bad deal.

Even if you don't like turkoglu, we've traded TJ for two starters and a very intriguing prospect. 17th+ picks rarely turn into nba players, and even less common to become starters. Considering what deals tj was attracting that summer (diaw, magette etc), it's by far the best option.
First of all, I don't miss the point unless it's on purpose.
Secondly, all the deals between the trading of TJ, Rasho and our 1st for O'Neal - and the acquisitions this summer - were not part of some elaborate plan that BC had cooked up. They were deals that presented themselves at different times over the past season and a summer.
Yes, Colangelo had the presence of mind to make those moves when they were there.
No, he's not an evil genius who's finally hatched his ultimate devious scheme for NBA domination aka "Plan B". I'm being sarcastic of course, but people seem to think that this sort of thing is what has gone on.

Actually, all I said was that it sucks that he had to give up another 1st (I like the draft) and take back Banks in return for JO.

................and who ever said I don't like Turkoglu?
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:01 PM   #100 (permalink)
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BC was looking at 2009 and 2010 at the very moment he signed Bosh and TJ with contracts that coincided with those years. He knew when Marion's and Hedo's contracts were going to be up for as long as they did themselves. And he said before JO ever arrived that 2009 and 2010 were going to be good years for acquiring players that can really make a difference as had happened with Nash in Phoenix. Why does he have to be an evil genius to have basic knowledge of what he wants and when he can and can't get it. I never said anything about NBA domination Dann. I said there was a vision involved and an overall plan executed, albeit messily (but when you look hard at the options, necessarily so).

You're right to see that he has chosen to build a team through free agency and turning around big contracts and not through collecting draft picks. But you have to have very high picks for a few years and they have to be good years for drafting talent, to build any kind of foundation, and even then you start to run into trouble when all the contracts come due at around the same time.
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