This season or bust.
Old 09-10-2008, 07:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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First off.... shout out to everyone here who I haven't seen in a long-ass time. Hope you're all well. Figured that I'd show my face here and peek in to see how things are going... AND (since I can't help myself) to offer my opinion on this upcoming Raps season.

In short... I think that THIS is going to be the season where we see if we have a legit shot at becoming a REAL team (i.e. Conference finals contender) or if we're just going to languish in mediocrity once again. Although BC has been decidedly "meh" in my eyes in his time here I'll give him kudos for having balls and making what could be a GREAT trade for this franchise (JO for TJ).

Let's face it... TJ didn't fit in here. That much was apparent (at least IMO) a LONG time ago. The kid is a VERY good player when he's on but he drove me CRAZY with his decision-making at times. To me he just smacked of everything that was WRONG with USA basketball (until this Olympics) while Jose embodied everything that a TRUE PG SHOULD be. Steady. Unselfish. Efficient. Reliable. I'm relieved that BC chose to keep Jose and deal TJ rather than the other way around.... because I don't think that my T.V. would be able to take the abuse that I would be dishing out to it on a semi-nightly basis if I had to watch him for 82+ games this season. Good luck to him in Indy.

J.O.... wow. If O'Neal is telling the truth and he really IS healthy.... look out.... this could be HUGE for the Raptors franchise. As much as some people always wanted to call Bosh a "pussy" (which is ridiculous in my eyes) the reality of the situation is that he was constantly overmatched in the post and faced defenses that were designed to stop him... esp. in the playoffs. With J.O. here Bosh is going to get MUCH more room to operate. Good news. I'm also expecting a huge bounce-back year from Kapono since he should get more open shots than ever before thanks to the 2 studs down low. Add in a healthy Jose (hopefully) and an always steady AP and you have a pretty good starting 5 IMO... capable of hanging with anyone in the East.

Bargs.... another reason why I've labelled this year "This season or bust". If Bargs DOESN'T show people why he was worthy of being a first round pick (much less #1) then he's all but done in this league (IMO). I would take Pape Sow or Kris Humphries any day of the week over this kid. I would take HAFFA over this kid (cue snickers).... shit... at least Haffa SCARED some people and wasn't afriad to take a hard foul. Bargs has to be one of the softest, most mentally weak players that I've ever seen and I wanted to vomit watching him on the court last season. I pray to God that J.O. can teach him a few things... because I would HATE to think that he could be "untradeable" by this season's end if his game doesn't pick up.

Sam.... STILL not convinced that he's head coach material. I don't give 2 shits if he DOES have a COTY award. A lot of pressure on him too this season. If he can't get this team out of the first round (on the condition that none of our major players get injured) then he needs to go. Period. Call me a homer if you will but I see no reason why we can't be a top 4 team in the East this season with the personnel that we have.

Ukic and Moon and Jawai.... X-factors.... if these guys can really bring it this year and are solid in the minutes that they get we'll be a VERY good team IMO. If they struggle... it'll be harder for us. Both Ukic and Moon have the length and the quickness to be terrors on the defensive end.... If Roko could develop into a Rondo-type PG I would weep with joy. Jawai is unproven but COULD be the "nasty banger type" that we've been needing since Oak and Willis left.... we'll see.

I'm really looking forward to this year though.... more so than probably any year in the last 5. I just hope that I'm not setting myself up for a wrist-slashing good time later on.

Thank-you. That is all.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Well i'll be darned!
'sup man!

BTW. did you have to bring up HAFFA!?!? of course.... only you.

Last edited by fancylad; 09-10-2008 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well i'll be darned!
'sup man!

BTW. did you have to bring up HAFFA!?!? of course.... only you.
Lol.... yep. Because at least HE was a #8 pick.... Bargs was #1.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Don't be so hard on Andrea. You of all people who preach patience with young big-men. Last season he had a number of health issues. Not an excuse - just stating a fact. This year is a big year. but to prefer talentless projects over him... come on.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Don't be so hard on Andrea. You of all people who preach patience with young big-men. Last season he had a number of health issues. Not an excuse - just stating a fact. This year is a big year. but to prefer talentless projects over him... come on.
I DID preach patience with young bigs.... and Andrea has had 293826439827528 X the chances that Haffa ever did to succeed. That is FACT. Not opinion.

I would have no problem with him if his jumper just wasn't falling... but that's ALL that he does on the court. Shoot the spot up 3. That's IT. No rebounding. No defense (or minimal D). Nothing else.

At this point in his career he IS a "talentless project". I don't care what he did over in Europe. He's sucking it hard in the NBA and unless he turns it around FAST this season he'll be headed back overseas when his contract's done.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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At this point in his career he IS a "talentless project". I don't care what he did over in Europe. He's sucking it hard in the NBA and unless he turns it around FAST this season he'll be headed back overseas when his contract's done.
that's too harsh, man. way too harsh. Bargs is arguably one the most "talented" young players we have ever had. This year will indeed be a big one for him, and i for one think that he will succeed. He turned some heads in his rookie season and then his health took a big setback in his sophomore campaign.
Supposedly, things have been straightened out on that front. So let's wait and see before writing him off.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Bargs is probably going to start alot of games this year at the 3 with Kapono starting at the 2.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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TO, no offense but what honestly makes you see more talent in Hoffa than in Bargs. I'm with you up to a point on Haffa. I liked him and what he did. But the difference between him and Bargs is simple, intelligence. Bargs is a much smarter player and a more skilled player than Haffa ever was. Alot of people are looking at last season and immediately saying well, that's the Bargs we're gonna have from now on. Well his rookie season showed that he belonged in the NBA and no one was willing to say that Haffa was a better player at that point than Bargs.

Too many people suffer from short term memory loss it seems. Bargs is still gonna be a player, just let him be healthy.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
.

I would have no problem with him if his jumper just wasn't falling... but that's ALL that he does on the court. Shoot the spot up 3. That's IT. No rebounding. No defense (or minimal D). Nothing else.
I actually find that Bargs man to man D on the Block is pretty good.
He actually did a better job against Howard in the Playoffs than Bosh.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I stopped reading after "in short" and then seeing a 1500 word essay.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I actually find that Bargs man to man D on the Block is pretty good.
He actually did a better job against Howard in the Playoffs than Bosh.
+1

Bargs defense wasnt that bad, the problem is he wouldnt stop fouling.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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+1

Bargs defense wasnt that bad, the problem is he wouldnt stop fouling.
I even think a few of the fouls called on him werent fouls. Hopefully this season he gets a little more respect from the refs.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:36 AM   #13 (permalink)
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TO, no offense but what honestly makes you see more talent in Hoffa than in Bargs. I'm with you up to a point on Haffa. I liked him and what he did. But the difference between him and Bargs is simple, intelligence. Bargs is a much smarter player and a more skilled player than Haffa ever was. Alot of people are looking at last season and immediately saying well, that's the Bargs we're gonna have from now on. Well his rookie season showed that he belonged in the NBA and no one was willing to say that Haffa was a better player at that point than Bargs.

Too many people suffer from short term memory loss it seems. Bargs is still gonna be a player, just let him be healthy.
Hey C... long time... : )

I guess I should clarify... Bargs > Haffa in terms of sheer talent. But Haffa > Bargs in terms of sheer heart and desire and toughness (something that we REALLY need on this team).

The Raptors are a very talented team. We have more than a few players who can score the ball. What we lack are TOUGH, hard-nosed players who won't back down from fierce competition.

During Bargs' rookie year EVERYONE sagged off of him and let him shoot the ball from deep... no one respected his shot and he made them pay for it. Last season you saw teams stay at home on him and make him put it on the floor and he wasn't anywhere near as successful. I don't buy this whole "well he was injured blah, blah, blah..."

If you're injured DON'T FUCKING PLAY. He's not Chris Bosh. He's not absolutely vital to our success. When there are guys like Moon and Hump on the bench waiting to come in (and provide us with something positive) there should be no reason to play Bargs if he's not at 100%.

Haffa played some very good post defense against the big bodies of the NBA... but no one ever seems to remember that... "short term memory loss" indeed....

BOTH Bargs and Haffa have suffered at the hands of the refs in terms of calls... that's to be expected.... but the thing that irks me about Bargs is that he just seems to give up if he doesn't hit his 3's.... and that pisses me off.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Good to hear from you so soon TO.

I'm one of Andrea's biggest critics here, but even I'd take him at #1 before I'd take Haffa at #8. Not sure what Babcock was on during his tenure here in Toronto.

Anywhore, I'm as confident as I've ever been with this team. If there is one area that scares the shit out of me it the lack of depth and the fact that we don't have that second unit that we've always had a tendency of been known of having. One or two big injuries this season and we're in deep doo-doo unless guys like Ukic, Will, Adams and Bargs prove me wrong. We'll see though.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Good to hear from you so soon TO.

I'm one of Andrea's biggest critics here, but even I'd take him at #1 before I'd take Haffa at #8. Not sure what Babcock was on during his tenure here in Toronto.

Anywhore, I'm as confident as I've ever been with this team. If there is one area that scares the shit out of me it the lack of depth and the fact that we don't have that second unit that we've always had a tendency of been known of having. One or two big injuries this season and we're in deep doo-doo unless guys like Ukic, Will, Adams and Bargs prove me wrong. We'll see though.
Thing is Doc.... as much as people want to have BC's babies he's made just as many blunders as Babs... people just refuse to see it.

People screamed when Babs signed Rafer to a long-term deal... only to have him implode..... yet fail to see the parallel in signing TJ (who was more concerned about getting his than seeing the team shine), only to deal him little more than a year later.

Babs drafting Haffa at #8 and passing on Iggy (which he was VILLIFIED for).

BC drafting Bargs at #1 and passing on Roy (even though we DESPERATELY needed a good guard who could create his own shot).

We got rid of Charlie V. who is MUCH more talented than Bargs because he "plays the same position as our franchise player"... only to draft Bargs a year later.

I respect the fact that BC is a good politician and has some GM savvy... but he's fucked up just as much as Babs had IMO... the one major difference is that Babs had almost NOTHING to work with back then given the state of the franchise.... BC has had EVERYTHING at his disposal to make this team a winner.

Again.. I respect his move to get JO... and if it works I'm sure that people will forget his mis-steps again and declare him "God" lol... but he's no better than half the other GMs in the league.

Now a GM like the Spurs or the Pistons have? That can contend EVERY year AND draft and acquire great players? THAT's impressive.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Hey C... long time... : )

I guess I should clarify... Bargs > Haffa in terms of sheer talent. But Haffa > Bargs in terms of sheer heart and desire and toughness (something that we REALLY need on this team).

The Raptors are a very talented team. We have more than a few players who can score the ball. What we lack are TOUGH, hard-nosed players who won't back down from fierce competition.

During Bargs' rookie year EVERYONE sagged off of him and let him shoot the ball from deep... no one respected his shot and he made them pay for it. Last season you saw teams stay at home on him and make him put it on the floor and he wasn't anywhere near as successful. I don't buy this whole "well he was injured blah, blah, blah..."

If you're injured DON'T FUCKING PLAY. He's not Chris Bosh. He's not absolutely vital to our success. When there are guys like Moon and Hump on the bench waiting to come in (and provide us with something positive) there should be no reason to play Bargs if he's not at 100%.

Haffa played some very good post defense against the big bodies of the NBA... but no one ever seems to remember that... "short term memory loss" indeed....

BOTH Bargs and Haffa have suffered at the hands of the refs in terms of calls... that's to be expected.... but the thing that irks me about Bargs is that he just seems to give up if he doesn't hit his 3's.... and that pisses me off.

In case you didnt know this guy is hoffa


A career per of 6.3 on 40 percent shooting and averaging 6.8 fouls per 36 minutes.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:52 AM   #17 (permalink)
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If you were expecting Haffa to come in and score like Tim Duncan then it's no small wonder that you were disappointed.

Haffa was here to clog the middle, defend the bigs that no one else could, and rebound the ball. Run the floor too.

And there were times (when he was allowed to play through mistakes) that he did that very well.

As for the fouls.... those were as much the refs' fault as Haffa's.... they screwed him big time.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:05 AM   #18 (permalink)
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hey TO... welcome back to the fold. great to hear from you.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:06 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Haffa being drafted at #8 killed his professional career before it even started. The pressure of being drafted as high as he was taken deterred any potential growth in my opinion. Had he been taken where he should of in the last first round or early second, who knows where he'd be now. All I know is that he was absolutely garbage in a Raps uniform. Sorry TO.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Haffa being drafted at #8 killed his professional career before it even started. The pressure of being drafted as high as he was taken deterred any potential growth in my opinion. Had he been taken where he should of in the last first round or early second, who knows where he'd be now. All I know is that he was absolutely garbage in a Raps uniform. Sorry TO.
I have little problem now with people having that opinion.... it's just the ones who say that AND in the next breath say that "Bargs is gonna be great... he just needs some time..." that irk me to no end.

And you have zero credibility now when it comes to judging bigs Doc!! You thought La Marcus would never make it!

Yeah I went there!!!!! Kidding buddy!

Btw... good to hear from ya too 'trane... I'm still an EBSer... just thought I'd pop my head over to say hi though since it's been a while.
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