Sam showing Bargnani some tough love
Old 01-08-2008, 01:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Sam showing Bargnani some tough love

And he should, but enough is enough. I think Sam should continue handling Andrea this way until the message is understood. Time for Bargnani to seriously step it up. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Doug Smith
All players are not created equal. Sam, rightfully so, is going to let Bargnani play through more mistakes than Humphries or Graham because Bargnani has a much greater role in the future of the team and he needs to learn. And you learn by playing.

But, and this is a huge, but, it took all of four minutes in Fridayís game for Mitchell to hook Bargnani because of a huge defensive gaffe on a Chauncey Billups drive (Bargnani has his back turned to the paint instead of watching the ball and his man) and that was a solid message.,

And the reason he didnít play in the fourth quarter against Cleveland was because of his poor rebounding and defence that game. Another message sent.
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No problem with these messages either. Sam's trying to win games and mistakes like this lose games. Nuff said.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Enough with the fucking messages already. Bargnani is a finesse player who needs to get into the flow of games.

This message shit can only happen enough times; he needs to learn by being on the fucking court.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BballWatcher View Post
Enough with the fucking messages already. Bargnani is a finesse player who needs to get into the flow of games.

This message shit can only happen enough times; he needs to learn by being on the fucking court.
No one player is more important that the team...NONE. Andrea's development should not come at the cost of winning games.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
No one player is more important that the team...NONE. Andrea's development should not come at the cost of winning games.
Well said SWAN .... player development is that the D League is all about. lol
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
No one player is more important that the team...NONE. Andrea's development should not come at the cost of winning games.
IF we're a championship team then I agree. But we're still young. We're a team built for 3 years from now. Not this season.

Hell, Bosh in his first year played like crap and hell even his second year. But he was forced to learn on the job because we knew success would be down the line. We lived with his mistakes. Now, with some success, we say screw Andrea? This kid is young, let him play through his mistakes, its the only way to learn, espescially at a tough position (ie. Centre).
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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if hes not playing well,
then why not.
Send him messages so he steps it up.
Wins come first.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
No one player is more important that the team...NONE. Andrea's development should not come at the cost of winning games.
Guys what the hell are you talking about. Bargs was a plus 9 against the cavs. Take a look at how many guys were a plus in that game. The team as you say was playing well so why go after Bargs and take him out if the team on the floor at the time was doing well. If the team that was on the floor after Bargs and others were taken out were shitting the bed why didn't mitch change up the team he had on the floor and put Bargs back in. What did he have to lose Bargs was a plus 9 folkes in the game and he gets ripped apart. I thought we are team folkes.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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cant play d..
then sit ur ass on the bench.
and u must be blind or just didnt watch the game to say Bargnani played D...
Parker played D
bosh played his best
Moon just stellar
calderon did his thing
Bargnani???
doesnt know how to position himself at ALL.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Kuzzy stay with me on this one. My point that I am trying to make is that you might have a player that is not playing well,his individual stats might look like crap, however the team is doing well. Some times just presence alone could force the other team to play differantly.When Bargs was on the floor other team members seemed to have more room to move , we played better, hence Bargs being a plus 9. That plus 9 for Bargs was a team plus 9 when Bargs was on the floor.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Bargs is one of the best Man to Man defenders on our team....sure he is going to make mistakes...but he is better than Bosh in there.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by raptor123 View Post
Kuzzy stay with me on this one. My point that I am trying to make is that you might have a player that is not playing well,his individual stats might look like crap, however the team is doing well. Some times just presence alone could force the other team to play differantly.When Bargs was on the floor other team members seemed to have more room to move , we played better, hence Bargs being a plus 9. That plus 9 for Bargs was a team plus 9 when Bargs was on the floor.
You're putting way too much emphasis on the +/- minus stat IMO. For all we know it could have been +20 if Bargs wasn't on the floor. He needs to learn and if he makes multiple mistakes on one shift...clearly leaving him out there isn't helping him and certainly not the team.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Bargs is one of the best Man to Man defenders on our team....sure he is going to make mistakes...but he is better than Bosh in there.
Your kidding right? Bargs is one of our best Man to Man defenders? Bosh maybe a pushover when one-on-one in the post, but at least he challenges. Andrea stands there like a pylon.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Your kidding right? Bargs is one of our best Man to Man defenders? Bosh maybe a pushover when one-on-one in the post, but at least he challenges. Andrea stands there like a pylon.
Your not watching the same games I am....yes his mistakes are more obvious....and yes I should have clarified..."best defending big men". I'm telling ya Doc, take a closer look...he does a good job.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Your not watching the same games I am....yes his mistakes are more obvious....and yes I should have clarified..."best defending big men". I'm telling ya Doc, take a closer look...he does a good job.
I watch them Benzo, but I guess my impression of good one-on-one defense is different than yours. Defensively I still think Rasho's light years a head of both Bargnani and Bosh believe it or not. Andrea doesn't have any defensive intuition at all and by the time the opposing player makes a move or a fake, he's already lost Andrea. Playing defense is alot to do with taking risks and chances too especially when your not atletically gifted as say someone like Moon. Abdrea either isn't getting the concept or is still to afraid to take risks on the defensive end.

Rasho although alot slower than most, always seems to have better placement and fights more in the post. Is he any bigger than Andrea? No, if anything Bargs physically has the edge and size. Andrea just needs to learn to use his size to his advantage instead of using it as an obstacle.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Good points...I think alot of our defence problems comes from people not helping fast enough....and that hurts everyones game.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Good points...I think alot of our defence problems comes from people not helping fast enough....and that hurts everyones game.
I think I'm just frustrated with his performance up to this point. I'm letting my frustrations towards Bargnani get the best of me right now which in turn is why I'm contantly on his back about every little single thing. I think I'm over analyzing him right now and need to take a step back from berating him for everything he does. (or doesn't do)
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Old 01-09-2008, 02:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think I'm just frustrated with his performance up to this point. I'm letting my frustrations towards Bargnani get the best of me right now which in turn is why I'm contantly on his back about every little single thing. I think I'm over analyzing him right now and need to take a step back from berating him for everything he does. (or doesn't do)
My thoughts exactly!! I think people are forgetting that Andrea has played just over a full season (in terms of games played) in the NBA. Every player goes through a growth stage.... especially coming from Italy and not playing in the NCAA as other players.... its going to take time. I think he's played a lot better this year on defence than people want to give him credit for.

I also agree with raptors123 in the fact that when Andrea was in the game, the raps were leading the cavs by 10-14 points. +9 or watever the case....you have a winning combination of players. I think common sense tells you that the raps can play with andrea and if given the opportunity he'll get out of these funks.... but he needs to see playing time. CONSISTENT playing time.

Like it or not... we picked andrea over roy and aldridge.... HE IS OUR FUTURE!!
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Old 01-11-2008, 01:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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rasho is our best defender, but andreea is much better than bosh. He is way stronger, and he has enough quickness to defend a big man. And people are underestimating his importance, even when he's not playing well. When Andreea plays on the perimeter, he will always attract a big man to the outside, even if it's a SF. That will leave more space for bosh. However, cavs went small in the 4th, so somebody had to be sacrificed. That's a mistake Mitchell still makes often, adapting to the other team's strategy, instead of forcing them to change the lineup ....
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