Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards

Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/)
-   Toronto Raptors (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/)
-   -   Sam needs to make up his mind with Bargs (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/sam-needs-make-up-his-mind-bargs-435.html)

Ball Don't Lie 01-20-2008 02:23 PM

Sam needs to make up his mind with Bargs
 
Ever since the roadtrip where he started again, Bargs has gotten limited touches if any in most of the last 6 or so games, and his energy on defence has been pathetic as a result.

Now, obviously it's not a good thing that his D isnt there because of his offence, but that's the same for many many young immature players and most people who play basketball in general. If you're not touching the ball or getting up shats you dont play as hard on defence and dont put as much energy in doing what needs to be done.

Bargs has been relegated to the 2nd pass out of the double team who would get the assist if it were hockey. He maybe sets 2 picks a game for pick and pops, and NEVER gets the ball in the midrange area anymore.

Sam has to either use his skillset and give him the ball 3-4 times a quarter on the opposite side of Bosh and let him try and create something for himself/others or just bench him 5 games or so and go from there. Just having him float out there for the first 6 minutes of each quarter isnt gonna make our team better. He's using him like he used Hoffa, and Bargs' is a unique talent who deserves more credit than that after last year.

Use the guy when he's in the game or dont use him at all. If he keeps using him like hes some scrub bigman like Calvin Booth who's just supposed to defend and set picks Bargnani isnt gonna develop at all and likely leave when his contract is up and we wont get anything back for him in return, and then he WILL blossom somewhere where a good coach will know how to utilize his skillset.

If he was in Portland I guarantee he'd be putting up 15 PPG with Roy and beside a guy like Pryzbilla who will have his back. McMillan calls a ton of plays for Aldridge on pick and pops and iso's inside 18 feet, why cant we do the same with Bargs? It's not like it's gonna hurt our offence, it's already the most predictable offence in the NBA, especially when Jose isnt dribbling 2+ feet past the pick anymore to make the defence react.

USE HIM OR BENCH HIM.

fire smitch.

Dr. J. Naismith 01-20-2008 07:38 PM

Bench him then Thrills! I'm sorry, but he's had more than an ample amount of time to prove himself on offense, but now when he gets the ball its like he's playing "hot potato" because as fast as he touches the ball, he gets rid of it with erractic shots. Most times he's not even square to the hoop. :mad:

My big thing is, if you not going to do one thing well or at least put forth a valiant effort, then you don't deserve to play. He's obviously not grasping the concept of defense and rebounding and the fact that whatever playing time he does gets, his offense is becoming more embarrassing than his defense. Why should Bargnani be rewarded with more playing time when if anything he's doing more harm than good? I'm tired of people making excuses for him or saying "just play him and let him learn". Well guess what, Sam's done that all season long and instead of showing even "baby steps" forward, he's tumbling back further and further. Sam shouldn't be pressured to play him just because he was a first overall selection. Andrea needs to help himself and do it sooner rather than later. :mad:

Belsius 01-20-2008 11:09 PM

I dont know Doc, if we are using him as a starter, we need to make some plays for him. We need to give him the ball near the post more often, like bosh does. How can we want him to score like a center if he doesnt get the ball near the post more than once a game.
I think probably the biggest mistake was to start him from the beggining of the season instead of waiting for him to develop as a backup center without pressure and then start him.

ClingRap 01-21-2008 02:07 AM

why would you make plays for someone who makes bad decisions with the ball, has no confidence, and has trouble staying in games with foul trouble. coaches have only so much time to implement things into an offense, so why would they dedicate time to run stuff for someone who is incapable of staying out of foul trouble.
he's shooting under 30% from the field on the year!!!!!
bargs sucks in the post. he has no post game. i've seen them run switches to get him the ball in the post all the time, only to either watch him foul the smaller guy by using his off arm to hold, travel, or take a fade away jump shot. they run stuff for him. he just isnt producing anything right now...outside of bricks anyway.

Belsius 01-21-2008 02:24 AM

Yeah I agree, thats why I think we need to make plays for him, so he can learn. If sam keeps starting bargs then make some plays for him, if not bench him and start over as a backup. The worst thing is that he is losing his best weapon wich is shooting.

ClingRap 01-21-2008 10:37 AM

if you look at guys like moon and anthony parker, most of their shots come from jose driving and kicking, or from bosh passing from a double team. they probably dont run any plays for those guys, yet they still manage to produce in the flow of the offense. the same with hump. i hate to say it, but hump is a more efficient offensive player right now, simply because he hustles and gets after it.
sam isn't a silver platter kind of guy, and i think there's nice lesson here with not handing the keys to the VIP to andrea. andrea got everything last year in the flow of the offense. teams have adjusted to his jump shot, yet he hasn't figured out what to do. he rushes. granted there's always an adjustment period, but i think this year's a write off. we're at the halfway mark, amidst the middle of the eastern conference, and if we're going to make a push then we need to focus on guys who can produce within the structure of the team.

Belsius 01-21-2008 10:59 AM

I understand that when we are tied, or with a little advantage we dont need to take chances, but when we are 10 or 15 up calde and parker should try to give him the ball more often like they do with bosh. Any player needs to get in contact with the ball to improve, even if its risky for our team. The biggest problem I see is that with our sad capability of blowing up our leads its difficult to take any risks.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-21-2008 11:11 AM

Sounds like they're looking at a big man coach for him more seriously... that can't hurt. What a dispointing year wrt AB. Lots of fans writing him off... i dont' think he's done but man it's been tough.

Dann38 01-21-2008 11:30 AM

They need to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole here. Bargnani is not a centre and never will be. He's a 4. Problem is we already have a really good one. Maybe Bargs should be coming in off the bench to spell Bosh. That way he could be the first option on the second unit. All the Raps plays run through the high post.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-21-2008 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann38 (Post 5583)
They need to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole here. Bargnani is not a centre and never will be. He's a 4. Problem is we already have a really good one. Maybe Bargs should be coming in off the bench to spell Bosh. That way he could be the first option on the second unit. All the Raps plays run through the high post.

Bench player to spell your franchise player seems an awful waste of a first overall pick. I would rather see him back to the strating 3 spot and allowed to be the shooter he is like last year.

INSIDER 01-21-2008 11:58 AM

what did he do in europe?
was he a shooter?

fuck, whatever he did there, he should be allowed to do here...
let him play like okur... get inside and outside, pull the opposing C out of the paint as much as possible and bomb some 3's.

Acie 01-21-2008 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 5594)
what did he do in europe?
was he a shooter?

fuck, whatever he did there, he should be allowed to do here...
let him play like okur... get inside and outside, pull the opposing C out of the paint as much as possible and bomb some 3's.


You got it buddy! :)

INSIDER 01-21-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACIEEARL40 (Post 5606)
You got it buddy! :)

damn right ACIE!

this whole toughening up thing is actually causing more damage than good.
andrea is losing confidence more and more... he just doesnt know where he belongs.
give him the oppurtunity to play his style, let him pull up for jumpers, give him the open lane for his move to the basket... it you force him to stay in the paint, he wont get anything done right and he'll look terrible... and thats exactly whats happening know.
remember last year when he started playing amazing? its cuase he was playing his game type... stepping out, drawing the defender outside of the paint... then using his speed to blow by or shoot.

he had a few bad shooting nights to start the season and it seems like the coaches got scared and forced him the stay in the paint ever since.... and its been downhill ever since.

ClingRap 01-21-2008 12:40 PM

its been more than a few. and it hasnt been his shooting. has anyone else here not recognized that he takes himself out of games with quick fouls???
plus, he's getting plenty of open looks. he isnt making them. if a guy isn't shooting well from long range, and he hasn't been all year, then why let him set out there?
the problem, and its been beaten to death, but it persists, is his inability to box out on defense, his lack of toughness.
If this guy is going to be a centre in this league, then he needs to rebound. if he's going to be a 4 in this league, then he needs to rebound. his rebounding has been atrocious. as has his defense.
im not sure if its beneficial to the team to keep playing him the way they have. he's a liability right now, a loose cog.

MangoKidHoops 01-21-2008 01:01 PM

Can we not send him down to the D-League? He needs confidence, and he's not getting it here? Let him tear apart the D-League, then come back here with a vengence.

INSIDER 01-21-2008 01:07 PM

its really a lose-lose situation for bargnani...
you send him down to the D league you lose because the media will destory us for "wasting" a pick, and i think it'll actually demotivate him and cause more lost confidence cause he'll be getting demoted.

you continue to let him play and its a lose because he's playing like shit and is hurting the team rather than helping....


what the hell do we do?

we go back to basics thats what. let him play the way he feels comfortable. let him build up his confidence, then go out and try to get him to toughen up... if we try to teach him now while he's not confident, he'll fail.
we have to get him while he's on a high... that way he'll be motivated to learn and actually work.

i know we've given him time already but he's worth more...

Dr. J. Naismith 01-21-2008 01:07 PM

I thought there was some rule in place where first rounders within the first couple years in the pros cannot be sent down to the D-League. Anyone else hear that or am I just making this up? :confused:

Acie 01-21-2008 01:07 PM

I think sending him to the D-League would kill him...literally. lol

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-21-2008 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 5628)
I thought there was some rule in place where first rounders within the first couple years in the pros cannot be sent down to the D-League. Anyone else hear that or am I just making this up? :confused:

Jordan Farmar for one disagrees with you :)

Acie 01-21-2008 01:11 PM

Players with more than two years experience can not be sent down.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24