Sam needs to make up his mind with Bargs - Page 2
Old 01-21-2008, 02:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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what is he learning picking up 2 quick fouls and then sitting for the entire first half? He has no confidence. Fuck, this is really a catch-22 situation. It's not like he's not getting PT. He's getting it. He's just brain-cramped for it. Big-man camp is not going to work. He needs to spend the summer working with Dirk.
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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As far as I'm concerned it's a confidence and an effort issue, as much as it is a matter of him learning anything. He's in a massive funk and if he can start playing like he did against San Antonio and the way he did the first couple games of the season he'll be fine. I just hope he gets it together by the last quarter of the season.
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I should add he's shown flashes of making an effort to work harder and to me that's somewhat encouraging.
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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My impression is that Andreea is ignored by his team-mates. Whether that's a result of them not having confidence in him, not liking him, pressure from the coach or whatever, I don't know.

However, I'm tired of hearing this fouls trouble talk - when was the last time Andreea has fouled out in a game? If the problem is foul trouble, why doesn't Sam leave him to play with 2, 3 or more fouls - it's not like he's afraid that he'll lose Andreea for the final quarter, since I don't even remember when was the last time Andreea played in a final quarter, even in blowouts he stays on the bench ...
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
My impression is that Andreea is ignored by his team-mates. Whether that's a result of them not having confidence in him, not liking him, pressure from the coach or whatever, I don't know.

However, I'm tired of hearing this fouls trouble talk - when was the last time Andreea has fouled out in a game? If the problem is foul trouble, why doesn't Sam leave him to play with 2, 3 or more fouls - it's not like he's afraid that he'll lose Andreea for the final quarter, since I don't even remember when was the last time Andreea played in a final quarter, even in blowouts he stays on the bench ...
from smith's morning after etc

Given a chance

Since Andrea Bargnani hardly plays in a fourth quarter – think the last time he got significant crunch time minutes was in San Antonio right after Christmas – many wondered why Sam didn’t leave him in in the first quarter when he gets his obligatory two personals.

Well, he left him in last night and it only took about 90 seconds for him to get his third.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
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from a strategic point of view, the last thing you want out there is someone who commits quick and stupid fouls, which puts teams in bonuses with like 8 minutes to go in a quarter. also, it'd be down right embarassing for Bargnani to foul out in a quarter or a half even, with more fouls than points, rebounds, assists, and blocks combiined
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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from smith's morning after etc

Given a chance

Since Andrea Bargnani hardly plays in a fourth quarter – think the last time he got significant crunch time minutes was in San Antonio right after Christmas – many wondered why Sam didn’t leave him in in the first quarter when he gets his obligatory two personals.

Well, he left him in last night and it only took about 90 seconds for him to get his third.
the right attitude would be to tell him: go there, kick ass, if you get 5 fouls in 3 minutes, I'm not taking you out. If Mitchell doesn't tell him in advance that he'll stay in the game no matter what, once Andreea gets his second, he's screwed, because he doesn't dare touching anybody - so he ends up playing pathetic. Plus, once you know fouls are not a concern, you'll have one thing less to think about.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I think it's the pathetic play before the second foul that's the concerning part.
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Old 01-22-2008, 10:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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that's why they call it "learn through your mistakes" ... if he would be playing well, we wouldn't have this conversation. Look at the other young bug guys around the league, bynum, bogut, howard - how long did it take them to become good players - and they have a much more impressive physique to bang with ...
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Old 01-22-2008, 10:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Yeah, but they were putting in the effort. It's clear when watching the games he's not always giving 100% and it's been well documented that he wasn't giving it in practice either.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:07 AM   #31 (permalink)
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is it? cause the way I understand, he actually works quite hard in practice, at least that's what Sam said. My impression of him is not that he is not trying on the floor, but that he doesn't have a clue what to do. He's always confused, doesn't know if and where to set the screens, when to go down low, when to shoot, when to penetrate, on defense he's not sure when to help and when to stay with his man etc. Also, right now he's created himself a reputation for being clueless, and the first mistake he makes will make him lose whatever composure he has, leading to more and more mistakes. Watch him carefully the first 2-3 minutes of the game, you'll see that he's trying to do the right thing - and then he fades away after he starts making mistakes.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:08 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I've seen in games lately a lack of interest and effort particularly on the defensive end and rebounding. Leo has commented on it a few times as well and when the home commentators are saying it...it's bad. I hope he finds his drive again..this is gone past ridiculous.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:47 AM   #33 (permalink)
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is it? cause the way I understand, he actually works quite hard in practice, at least that's what Sam said. My impression of him is not that he is not trying on the floor, but that he doesn't have a clue what to do. He's always confused, doesn't know if and where to set the screens, when to go down low, when to shoot, when to penetrate, on defense he's not sure when to help and when to stay with his man etc. Also, right now he's created himself a reputation for being clueless, and the first mistake he makes will make him lose whatever composure he has, leading to more and more mistakes. Watch him carefully the first 2-3 minutes of the game, you'll see that he's trying to do the right thing - and then he fades away after he starts making mistakes.
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But while Mitchell and his coaching staff have endeavoured to help Bargnani through this transition, their efforts have not always been met by an appreciative Bargnani in Mitchell's opinion. Mitchell has seen Bargnani go through the one-on-one drills that would help him make the transition with a half-hearted effort.
There was another article too about him not even putting forth an effort and being out-hustled in practice by Hump and Baston.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:14 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm assuming that you know that Sam said last week that Bargnani is putting a lot of effort, coming early and staying late after practices. Your quote actually was used to show that Bargnani is not receptive to the kind of things Sam is trying to teach him. It's not that he doesn't work, it's that he doesn't want to do what Sam is telling him to do.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:23 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
I'm assuming that you know that Sam said last week that Bargnani is putting a lot of effort, coming early and staying late after practices. Your quote actually was used to show that Bargnani is not receptive to the kind of things Sam is trying to teach him. It's not that he doesn't work, it's that he doesn't want to do what Sam is telling him to do.
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I should add he's shown flashes of making an effort to work harder and to me that's somewhat encouraging.
My original quote is above, so yeah I'm pretty sure I know.

And if he doesn't want to do what Sam asks him to then he's not making an effort to get better. And I saw Sam on Raps TV say that he has a drill that he runs to get the ball and that Hump and Baston (or maybe it was Delfino) were manhandling him and he wasn't putting in any effort into it.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:53 PM   #36 (permalink)
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and I'm not arguing this - that much is pretty obvious that he's not receptive to Sam's teaching techniques, for whatever reason. But like it or not, both Sam and Andreea are here to stay, especially Andreea. So you have to try really hard to make this work. I'm sure Maurizio and Bryan are going hard on Andreea for disrespecting Sam, regardless whether he's right or not - you can't argue with the coach, not in your second year, #1 pick or not ...

But from Sam's end, he must also adapt to Andreea's ways, he must try to understand what motivates him, why he is unresponsive. You can't treat Andreea like you treat Humphries or Dixon, he's much too valuable of an investment for our team. And above all, you must give him playing time - even at the cost of wins this season. I can guarantee you that if Andreea plays every game until he fouls out, we'll still make the playoffs. It's not like he's absolutely killing us ...
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:03 PM   #37 (permalink)
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This isn't on the coach. The entire coaching staff were bending over backwards to help -what more does the guy want? The cold shoulder was a last ditch effort to get through to him.

Again I think it's about effort. Why is he picking up those fouls? Beacuse he's playing really lazy defense and he does kill the team. It's like playing four on five out there.
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:56 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I don't agree it's the effort - but this is subjective so it doesn't matter. I think he's just clueless, even last night, he sucked big time on defense, but most people get blinded by his offensive performance. I think Andreea tries hard, but just doesn't have the instinct/knowledge/skill to position himself properly.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:51 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I don't agree it's the effort - but this is subjective so it doesn't matter. I think he's just clueless, even last night, he sucked big time on defense, but most people get blinded by his offensive performance. I think Andreea tries hard, but just doesn't have the instinct/knowledge/skill to position himself properly.
Whoa now - he wasn't really clueless last night. Certainly not in comparison to other outings. He still needs lots of work on defense, but he showed the interest last night at least, and as long as the interest is there the knowledge and skill can start to develop.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:57 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Whoa now - he wasn't really clueless last night. Certainly not in comparison to other outings. He still needs lots of work on defense, but he showed the interest last night at least, and as long as the interest is there the knowledge and skill can start to develop.
Although I don't totally disagree with what milk is saying, last night wasn't the same Andrea Bargnani. He was sooooo patient on both ends of the floor that it almost blew me away. His defense will continue to be in question as long as he's still learning how to play as a true centre, but he definitely took more initiative when guarding KG, Perkins and Davis last night. Most interested he's looked pretty much all season long.

I hope this trend continues so I can stop using him as our scapegoat. :cheeky-smiley-013:
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