Rumor: Raptors might be exploring a deal for Derozan - Page 4
Old 12-07-2013, 10:59 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Unbelievable, the number of people that think you can have your cake and eat it too.

There isn't a way to keep Derozan and rebuild the team, unless you're prepared to wait 5-6 years for multiple draft choices to maybe pan out, by which time he'll be a UFA on a horse. The other pieces won't bring enough, unless we fluke onto a trading partner that is devastated by injuries and is desperate for our slag. Plus, none of it will matter as long as Casey is here. We have to play a half court game, because we don't have anyone that actually pushes the call up the court with pace( see Gay and Derozan sauntering their dribble up the court allowing defenses to set up and stop us) and to play a half court game you need ball movement and good execution,

I'm sure the players are trying hard, but there's going to be an explosion due to effort not producing some kind of success, because we got the wrong coach using the wrong players to play the wrong system to be successful in today's NBA. Ujiri has a bigger mess to clean up than he ever imagined. The shit pile BC left is gargantuan, from Casey, to Gay, to flexibility to wasted trades, etc, etc, etc.

Good luck Masai.

Last edited by niggles; 12-07-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:15 AM   #62 (permalink)
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The feels, too much feels :'(

But honestly I can't wait for a direction to be clear. I can't be bothered to watch any games ATM.. Our team is really boring to watch.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:39 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Lol you guys can't trust a rumor like that from Latino Post. They just basically heard that Derozan is frustrated , so they think the Raptors might deal him since he's unhappy with the team. That's just the media playing with us. Don't believe everything the media tells you. Besides, Rudy Gay is the one who should be traded, not Derozan. Trading Derozan would seem illogical at this point in my opinion.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:49 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Lol you guys can't trust a rumor like that from Latino Post. They just basically heard that Derozan is frustrated , so they think the Raptors might deal him since he's unhappy with the team. That's just the media playing with us. Don't believe everything the media tells you. Besides, Rudy Gay is the one who should be traded, not Derozan. Trading Derozan would seem illogical at this point in my opinion.
One that quotes Sam Amico? How does traded your best asset when you want to rebuild illogocal? It is what a team in this situation is supposed to do. You think we're going to rebuild by trading a rental in Lowry or Rudy gay at .50 on the dollar? Maybe you would rather trade JV?


The players on this roster that can get us assets to varying degrees are:

Lowry (expiring, no more than a rental value wise)
Derozan (reasonable contract, having a career year)
Gay (Overpaid and having a bad season)
Amir (wouldn't net us much alone)
JV (not likely to be dealt unless MU is blown away)


Now I ask you, if you are a GM looking to start a rebuild on the right foot who do you deal first?

Last edited by jeffb; 12-07-2013 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:03 PM   #65 (permalink)
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It's not a rebuild. We don't know if it is. Why can't we just look to, you know, build?


The ONLY way I see us trading demar is if it nets us a good return PLUS gets us rid of gay's contract without having to take shit back.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:04 PM   #66 (permalink)
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i'm certainly not against trading DD at all. but the trade proposal in this thread don't bring here the same value as we give away.

to be successful we don't need to rebuild for 5-6 yrs.
we really need twp things :
1. a solid coach.
2. a top ten pick this season

1.
there is some coachs available right now. but if you want a top 10 pick this season, keep our coach and our roster.

2.
even if you trade DD you will not get a top ten pick in this year draft. no way with all the team tanking you can get one. that's why i wouldn't sell DD.
Gay has still value on the market especially for team in need of offense push.


Now, the mess that bc left MU was big, for sure.
but what MU did was not that good.
A. No real backup pg : buycks -stone - augustine. he knew lowry has health issue. that implicate that MU wanted to tank.
B. no 6th man or factor X in the roster. every team whom want to win need one - two player whom can come off the bench and put 15pt. another indaction MU was going to tank.
c. When he toke the job and decide to keep DC, he said he was putting an unbelievable coching group. if it's xas the cas, why when you have a denfensive mind coach, your first assistant is another defensive coach. and our offensive coordinator is a nba rookie.


the do-nothing make sense if you want to lose. it don't make sense when you want to adress issue and biuld a culture of winning.
i don't blame him. but don't tell people you are evaluating the roster when you bring garbage to fill the needs..
this summer we had better asset to sell than PHX, but they get better situation because Mu decide he wanted to wait and see, when in fact he was counting on exactly what happen to get a high pick.

but really this team doesn't need a shake up to be a playoffs team, they need a "coup de pied au cul'. we all heard about the chemistry off the court, but we can't see it on the court. why is that. as fan we jump on conclusion that the player care more about their stat than wining. i disagree.
the coaching is the problem/
a. try too much to make player do what their aren't good at.
b. want ball movment, but don't create a system with ball movment.
c. scream too push the ball, but don't take mesure.
d. no one is accountable for their mistake.
e. he out runs DD, and let him in the game when he is out of gaz.
f. if you want to improv youngster, you need to allow to play.

casey don't act like he need to drive this team on sucess path.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:16 PM   #67 (permalink)
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One that quotes Sam Amico? How does traded your best asset when you want to rebuild illogocal? It is what a team in this situation is supposed to do. You think we're going to rebuild by trading a rental in Lowry or Rudy gay at .50 on the dollar? Maybe you would rather trade JV?


The players on this roster that can get us assets to varying degrees are:

Lowry (expiring, no more than a rental value wise)
Derozan (reasonable contract, having a career year)
Gay (Overpaid and having a bad season)
Amir (wouldn't net us much alone)
JV (not likely to be dealt unless MU is blown away)


Now I ask you, if you are a GM looking to start a rebuild on the right foot who do you deal first?
The Raptors will rebuild if they choose not to trade Derozan. Let me tell you why. Indeed, Rudy Gay is having a bad season WITH the Raptors. The main reason for his struggle is because of the coaching decision (bad offense). He could play better for a different team who needs him. Derozan and Gay cannot play together, they're the same players. Also, if the team doesn't trade Rudy Gay, then he might even consider picking up his player option. He could get a lot more money from the Raptors than any other team would offer him. I'll keep this short by saying, if the Raptors want to rebuild, they should trade anyone except for Derozan and JV.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:20 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Now I ask you, if you are a GM looking to start a rebuild on the right foot who do you deal first?
easy...KL
should get a reasonable return with his expiring
we have NOTHING as a back-up...instant tank mode

from there i go to Fields
adequate/versatile player with a decent B-Ball IQ
contract is a bit bloated but i feel you can get a good piece in return

from there i go to Rudy
MU was able to get good value for Carmelo under duress...no reason he can't do the same with RG

once i know what i have from these 3 deals i start to put the word out on DD...if i like what i got in return for the previous 3 deals i consider keeping him...if i feel i need more i deal him

if i get to the point where i feel i need to deal DD, then everyone else of any significance is up for grabs as well (meaning TH and Amir)

i keep JV and Ross...both young enough to build around with picks and whatever young talent i get in return for anything from above

wipe the bench clean...it is covered in shit

just my 2 Canadian Cents
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:23 PM   #69 (permalink)
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easy...KL
should get a reasonable return with his expiring
we have NOTHING as a back-up...instant tank mode

from there i go to Fields
adequate/versatile player with a decent B-Ball IQ
contract is a bit bloated but i feel you can get a good piece in return

from there i go to Rudy
MU was able to get good value for Carmelo under duress...no reason he can't do the same with RG

once i know what i have from these 3 deals i start to put the word out on DD...if i like what i got in return for the previous 3 deals i consider keeping him...if i feel i need more i deal him

if i get to the point where i feel i need to deal DD, then everyone else of any significance is up for grabs as well (meaning TH and Amir)

i keep JV and Ross...both young enough to build around with picks and whatever young talent i get in return for anything from above

wipe the bench clean...it is covered in shit

just my 2 Canadian Cents

So a rental and a bench player that's overpaid and barely plays on a bad team gets a rebuild off on the right foot? I guess we view the definition very differently
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:24 PM   #70 (permalink)
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It's not a rebuild. We don't know if it is. Why can't we just look to, you know, build?


The ONLY way I see us trading demar is if it nets us a good return PLUS gets us rid of gay's contract without having to take shit back.
I disagree. We SHOULD be taking shit back like Amare and getting a pick too (on top of what we get for DD). If we are going to suck, suck properly and know that you take on his terrible contract for 2 years for an additional pick in the trade. Whats the point in getting a good player for DD? Its a bad example since the knicks don't have the picks (and the salariies would have to be balanced), but DD+Amir for Amare and Hardway plus 2 firsts... (it doesn't work its only an example). If your going to tank, you do it by taking on shit contracts and getting picks.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:27 PM   #71 (permalink)
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So a rental and a bench player that's overpaid and barely plays on a bad team gets a rebuild off on the right foot? I guess we view the definition very differently
..you love to critique, but you never put anything down yourself

what exactly would you do ?
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:40 PM   #72 (permalink)
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..you love to critique, but you never put anything down yourself

what exactly would you do ?
Sell high on whatever players you can. Why would we hold onto DD if we're blowing it up? You expect him to want to stay on a losing team the first 7-8yrs of his career and not be decent until his contract is coming to an end......if he doesn't demand a trade before that? I certainly wouldn't cut around the edges of the roster and deal our scrubs first.

Amir, DD, RG should be dealt and Lowry is probably a throw in with one of them with him being a rental at this point.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:43 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I disagree. We SHOULD be taking shit back like Amare and getting a pick too (on top of what we get for DD). If we are going to suck, suck properly and know that you take on his terrible contract for 2 years for an additional pick in the trade. Whats the point in getting a good player for DD? Its a bad example since the knicks don't have the picks (and the salariies would have to be balanced), but DD+Amir for Amare and Hardway plus 2 firsts... (it doesn't work its only an example). If your going to tank, you do it by taking on shit contracts and getting picks.
Agree with this. Just look at the Cavs a few years ago. They took on Baron Davis shitty contract in order to get that 1st rounder from the Clippers and they ended up with 2 top 5 first rounders in the draft.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:46 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Sell high on whatever players you can. Why would we hold onto DD if we're blowing it up? You expect him to want to stay on a losing team the first 7-8yrs of his career and not be decent until his contract is coming to an end......if he doesn't demand a trade before that? I certainly wouldn't cut around the edges of the roster and deal our scrubs first.
see to me that's just being vague...you said...' if you are a GM looking to start a rebuild"...GM's have plan...break it down
what exactly would you do and in what order ?
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:46 PM   #75 (permalink)
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If DD is traded I would want return to be a young prospect (Antetokounmpo, Schroeder etc.)+ salary filler(good bench player)+future pick(even if it's 2nd rounder)
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:50 PM   #76 (permalink)
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see to me that's just being vague...you said...' if you are a GM looking to start a rebuild"...GM's have plan...break it down
what exactly would you do and in what order ?
How was my question vague? I asked who would you deal FIRST to start a rebuild? I didn't ask for a whole master plan.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:55 PM   #77 (permalink)
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If DD is traded I would want return to be a young prospect (Antetokounmpo, Schroeder etc.)+ salary filler(good bench player)+future pick(even if it's 2nd rounder)
i've been saying for a number of years now that this team needs to continually get younger and younger thru drafts and trades (because you're not getting high end free agents here)
once you have your young talented core that you want (even if it takes years), then and only then do you lock them up
once you've locked them in, you start to build a bench that caters to whatever system you've developed (veteran role players)

again...just my 2 Canadian Cents
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:01 PM   #78 (permalink)
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How was my question vague? I asked who would you deal FIRST to start a rebuild? I didn't ask for a whole master plan.
no, your answer was vague ..."Sell high on whatever players you can"

that's a fucking no-brainer
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:13 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Deal KL first. Then deal DD. Amir can be dealt as well but it's not a priority.. Then deal RG at the deadline or @ the draft. RG will not go into ufa.

LF will bring next to nothing back. Teams already have players like him but for smaller costs. Not to mention he's not an expiring and hasn't produced enough here.

Like so many r mentioning + possibly realizing-this team never did things properly. When ur a s**t team you don't hand out crap contracts - u deal expirings or short contracts. for those contracts while receiving picks.

2 those saying this team is doing 2 good to tank-check the EC standings.
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:26 PM   #80 (permalink)
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I trade KL DD AJ together if possible. Try to get as much bad contract back and picks to a team/teams contending. Gay I trade separately to anyone desperate enough for anything they will give. TH and Ross depends.
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