Roster Comparison: 2006-'07 Raptors vs. 2008-'09 Raptors
Old 08-24-2008, 08:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Roster Comparison: 2006-'07 Raptors vs. 2008-'09 Raptors

Here is a little comparison that I made between our best season's team ('06-'07), and this year's team:

2006-'07 Vs. 2008-'09

C- Nesterovic/Bargnani << O'neal/Bargnani/Jawai
Pf- Bosh/Garbajosa/Bargnani/Humphries ≥ Bosh/Bargnani/Humphries
Sf- Graham/Peterson/Jackson <<< Moon/Kapono/Graham
Sg- Parker/Peterson/Dixon ≥ Parker/Adams/Ukic
Pg- Ford/Calderon/Martin/Dixon ≤ Calderon/Ukic/Solomon
Overall- 2006-'07 < 2008-'09

As you can see, we have made big improvements at the positions that we were worst at, and in the areas where we declined, we really didn't lose that much. The point that I am trying to make with all of this is that we could easily get 50 wins and make the second round if things went our way (i.e. no major injuries, good frontcourt production, play Philadelphia, or other less experienced team, in the playoffs ). The competition may have stepped up, but so have we. And to all of you spoiled naysayers who seem to complain about everything little thing that we do at all wrong, just remember that we won only 27 games in '05-'06, and that we've built a truly great team over the last few years, so we really shouldn't be complaining.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ford and Calderon are better than Calderon and Ukic.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by souternmost Raptors fan View Post
As you can see, we have made big improvements at the positions that we were worst at, and in the areas where we declined, we really didn't lose that much. The point that I am trying to make with all of this is that we could easily get 50 wins and make the second round if things went our way (i.e. no major injuries, good frontcourt production, play Philadelphia, or other less experienced team, in the playoffs ). The competition may have stepped up, but so have we. And to all of you spoiled naysayers who seem to complain about everything little thing that we do at all wrong, just remember that we won only 27 games in '05-'06, and that we've built a truly great team over the last few years, so we really shouldn't be complaining.
I agree, most fans (so called sports fans in T.O) are always looking at the negative (ie: Calderon/Ukic isn't as good as Calderon/Ford).Even though we've improved at the Centre position and on defence and now we'll have Calderon playing 32-35 MPG if he stays healthy.But it seems to never be enough.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I agree, most fans (so called sports fans in T.O) are always looking at the negative (ie: Calderon/Ukic isn't as good as Calderon/Ford).Even though we've improved at the Centre position and on defence and now we'll have Calderon playing 32-35 MPG if he stays healthy.But it seems to never be enough.
How is the truth being negative?

The cohesiveness of the team may be greatly improved with TJ gone, but for the 06-07 saeson, the Raps had the best PG tandum in the league. Ukic hasn't even played a game in the league and Solomon hasn't played in the NBA in what - 5 or 6 years?
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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All right, I admit that I was a little high on the point guard position for us, but I was trying to be positive and focus on the good things that we've done in the last few years.You are right about TJ/Calderon being better than Calderon/Ukic/Solomon,though, or at least that is what we should expect.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ford and Calderon are better than Calderon and Ukic.
Easily.
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Solomon is better than Ukic and can be as good as Ford if not any better. Add JO to the equation, you have a much better team.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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HI Guys!

I really like our Roster so far. We have some questions marks like Roko, Adams and the heathly of Jermaine. But I think Jermaine will be fit, Hassan will be a great surprise and Roko will have a good teacher in Jose.

I think we are more athletic than the years before, and we need guys like Hassan, Andrea and Jamario to step up. I personally look for a career year from Andrea.

I think we have a chance to be a candidate for the top 3 in the east.

See ya later

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Old 08-25-2008, 10:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Easily.
How so?

I mean honestly, you guys have to look at things on terms of building a team. Two years ago I might have agreed, but having wathced two years of Calderon/Ford simply not working, I can't see how any of you could even argue that the two are not good for the team.

You shouldn't make the mistake of looking only at stats when you make your decisions. This is not a Fantasy nBA league where stats are what win you your pool. When you are a GM building a team you have a myriad of unmeasurable things to take into consideration. The tandem of Ukic and Calderon might be statistically inferior, however, having two guards, one being the flat out, unquestioned #1, and the other being a safe, team concept and similarly orientated player, is maybe a hell of a lot more impressive than you all may believe.

Now, disagree. I wanna pull out all the old posts bBEFORE tj left about ow you all thought it was IMPOSSIBLE for Toronto to perform to it's potential with both Calderon and Ford on board.

Net result.

Calderon/Ukic > Calderon/Ford
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ACIEEARL40 View Post
How is the truth being negative?

The cohesiveness of the team may be greatly improved with TJ gone, but for the 06-07 saeson, the Raps had the best PG tandum in the league. Ukic hasn't even played a game in the league and Solomon hasn't played in the NBA in what - 5 or 6 years?

I'm just saying that most Toronto sports fans dwell on a negative even when there are improvments.We get rebounding help,a true Centre and make Calderon our starting PG (32-35 MPG) and someone has to say well Calderon/Ford was better than Calderon/UKIC will be.Instaed of being happy about Calderon playing 35 minutes a night and being open/optomistic to Ukic backing him up.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:47 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I would say that much of the strength of team A was centered around Forderon, in spite of SJ suggesting that it just never worked, so yes it's hard to say there has been an improvement there. But in terms of building a more balanced team I completely agree with SJ's sentiments. The position now, with Solomon included in the mix, can provide more balance overall, and fits within a balanced approach with more reliance on strength in other positions, especially IF Ukic and Solomon can fill solid roles.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I'm just saying that most Toronto sports fans dwell on a negative even when there are improvments.We get rebounding help,a true Centre and make Calderon our starting PG (32-35 MPG) and someone has to say well Calderon/Ford was better than Calderon/UKIC will be.Instaed of being happy about Calderon playing 35 minutes a night and being open/optomistic to Ukic backing him up.
IMO Souternmost's post was wrong, so what's the problem with pointing that out and discussing it...at you know, a place designed to discuss things. A fact is a fact, it's not dwelling on anything. He was comparing that year's roster to this upcoming seasons.

We had the most dynamic PG duo in all of the NBA that season - two starters essentially. Can you still stay that?

BTW Jermaine is not a true center...he's a natural PF.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ACIEEARL40 View Post
IMO Souternmost's post was wrong, so what's the problem with pointing that out and discussing it...at you know, a place designed to discuss things. A fact is a fact, it's not dwelling on anything. He was comparing that year's roster to this upcoming seasons.

We had the most dynamic PG duo in all of the NBA that season - two starters essentially. Can you still stay that?

BTW Jermaine is not a true center...he's a natural PF.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ford and Calderon are better than Calderon and Ukic.
But maybe Ford and Calderon of 2006 is not better than Ukic and the Calderon of today :O
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think if you take into account the improvements Calderon has made with becoming more comfortable with the NBA style of game over the past 2 years you can say that this years tandem is definately as good or better then 06-07. I have not seen much of solomon, but someone on this thread seems to think pretty highly of him (or very low of TJ..lol). Regardless, Jose is MUCH better now then he was then, IMO he is much better then TJ at running an offense and playing defense. Therefore IMO we have a better starter then 2 years ago, and Ukic seems solid from what I have seen, and if nothing else, at 6'5, will be able to come in and play defense and distribute the ball. So we still have a solid backup as well. On top of this, we have no more argument over who should start, which is also a big upgrade as team turmoil is an unmeasurable disruption to team performance on the court.

My vote 08-09 > 06-07 Tj could be good at times, but he could also be cancer at times when he tried to take over games. He had some people angry with him last year when he started forcing shots down the stretch instead of just running the offense like a PG should. He also is a liability on defense , and a walking injury waiting to happen.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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How so?

I mean honestly, you guys have to look at things on terms of building a team. Two years ago I might have agreed, but having wathced two years of Calderon/Ford simply not working, I can't see how any of you could even argue that the two are not good for the team.
Ah, but we're not talking about Ford/Calderon of 2007/2008 so anything later than 2006/2007 is irrelevant in this particular conversation. Thats how. :sonic:
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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How so?

I mean honestly, you guys have to look at things on terms of building a team. Two years ago I might have agreed, but having wathced two years of Calderon/Ford simply not working, I can't see how any of you could even argue that the two are not good for the team.
We are talking about two years ago.
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:07 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I have not seen much of solomon, but someone on this thread seems to think pretty highly of him (or very low of TJ..lol).
I am high on Solomon because I've been watching him last few years. Check Ukic's and Solomon's Euroleague stats. Solomon clearly has better stats. He also received more fouls and collected more rebounds than Ukic which tells me he is tougher. He upgraded his stats in the Top-16 of Euroleague compared to the qualifying rounds. That tells you about his heart. IMO he is also a much better defender than Ford, Ukic and Calderon.

I am not high on Ukic because he is a white and light version of Wade. He is a drilling type of player but he is not athletic and strong. He can't have much success in the NBA without learning how to assist like Nash.

http://www.euroleague.net/competitio...=ULK&pcode=COS

http://www.euroleague.net/competitio...=rom&pcode=CJA

I believe that the Raptors will have the home court advantage in the first round of playoffs and they hopefully can win the East this year.
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Old 08-26-2008, 05:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks Henry - I like that you mentioned his defense. I would really like that to be an emphasis for him in the NBA. Last season speedy perimeter players killed us more than anything else. I could see 50 wins no problem if Solomon turns out to be a guy, along with Adams perhaps, who can shut down those guys to some extent.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:26 AM   #20 (permalink)
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LX, Solomon averages three steals per game in Euroleague top 16. That's hell of a stat IMO. Though he is terrific, he might not be successful in the NBA. NBA is a very different place where many brilliant Euro players failed or not given chance. I think we'll be OK as long as JO plays well and Jose takes the team leadership.
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