Rosen: Why can't Toronto keep it's stars?
Old 07-26-2010, 02:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 21,755
Representing:
Arrow Rosen: Why can't Toronto keep it's stars?

Quote:
I'm upset because I think Toronto is a great city (it's extremely multi-cultural and friendly) and every time we get anyone good to play here they end up leaving. Vince Carter, T-Mac, Chris Bosh and even Mo Pete (Morris Peterson). This is just a rant, but maybe you have some input about the situation. Is there just a stigma in the States that Toronto is a bad city? Why do people never want to play here and what does the future hold for us? — Matt Negreanu, Toronto

Having been there dozens of times, I agree that Toronto is a wonderful place. In addition to the attributes you highlight, Toronto is clean, peaceful, easy to traverse and filled with wonderful stores, restaurants and parks, beautiful lakeside scenery and recreational areas, a wide variety of cultural events and even fascinating architecture.

However, for too many cosmopolitan Americans, Toronto is erroneously deemed to be little more than a glorified hick town. Some ultra-patriots may still be hostile to Toronto because it provided refuge for draft resisters during the Vietnam conflict.

But losing Carter, T-Mac, Bosh and Mo Pete was nothing to cry about. The problem was the Raptors’ brass believing that those guys were the real deal and could make the team authentic contenders. If the roster were stocked with players who know how (and want) to win, Toronto would be more attractive to the type of performers who would have a more positive impact on the franchise’s fortunes.
LINK - Fox Sports.com
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
tired of shitty Toronto teams

Senior Member
 
Yuksek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 571
Representing:
Default Why can't Toronto keep its stars

Charley Rosen answers your NBA questions - NBA News - FOX Sports on MSN

"losing Carter, T-Mac, Bosh and Mo Pete was nothing to cry about. The problem was the Raptors’ brass believing that those guys were the real deal and could make the team authentic contenders. If the roster were stocked with players who know how (and want) to win, Toronto would be more attractive to the type of performers who would have a more positive impact on the franchise’s fortunes."
Yuksek is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 73
Representing:
Default

bltman is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 691
Representing:
Default

Vince would of stayed but the management was bullshit, if I was VC I would also demand a trade. Also Bosh isn't a star, he just thinks he is. Real stars don't bring the team to the draft lottery year after year.
JackAstors is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,432
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackAstors View Post
Vince would of stayed but the management was bullshit, if I was VC I would also demand a trade. Also Bosh isn't a star, he just thinks he is. Real stars don't bring the team to the draft lottery year after year.
And the management here during Bosh's time WASN'T bullshit?

At least GG knew how to build around VC... and went out and got players that knew how to win.

Can you honestly say the same about BC after watching the last 4-5 years?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,030
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Had T-Mac decided to stay, history could've been much different for this basketball team. Carter would've been the 2nd tier guy and Tracy the star. Two young guys that had a ton of a talent, other marquee talent possibly clamouring to play with them. Yep. And really we would've only seen the end of that phase now. Sad.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,739
Representing:
Default

If a team is not able to find a good second option to help carry a team, then yeah - go the route of building a culture around guys that do all the little things right, and keep themselves in every game with tough defense. Toronto went the route of going with a lot of guys that could pass and shoot.

The young guys could very well be the answer. Chandler and Barnes could have solidified their effect. My worry now is that young guys that still need to develop into those kinds of guys that Rosen talks about, might not be given precedence, and instead that "exciting" brand of basketball we've been sold for too long now, gets another go. The two things aren't mutually exclusive, but the braintrust here needs to figure out the right balance and the right priorities.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,030
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
And the management here during Bosh's time WASN'T bullshit?

At least GG knew how to build around VC... and went out and got players that knew how to win.

Can you honestly say the same about BC after watching the last 4-5 years?
GG put this team in cap hell and never got VC that secondary scorer. He didn't trade T-Mac when he had the chance at the deadline thus not maximizing on an asset.

GG tried to hit a home run or something with the Jalen Rose trade but that was a catastrophe. We relied on VC too often to carry this team.

You gotta stop looking at things not BC with rose colored glasses.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
DVS
in la la land

I'm stuck being a Rap Fan
 
DVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Its jeffb's world we just post in it
Posts: 6,023
Representing:
Default

I love "glorified hick town"

Priceless HAHAHA
DVS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 02:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
jonas smellandchewthis

Senior Member
 
thought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,723
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS View Post
I love "glorified hick town"

Priceless HAHAHA
i'll one-up you on that, backtrack to "too many cosmopolitan americans."

ya. whatever rosen.
thought is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,739
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
Had T-Mac decided to stay, history could've been much different for this basketball team. Carter would've been the 2nd tier guy and Tracy the star. Two young guys that had a ton of a talent, other marquee talent possibly clamouring to play with them. Yep. And really we would've only seen the end of that phase now. Sad.
McGrady became a star before he was a star. That was a shame. He's got to be one of the most overblown talents in recent memory. I'm not sure if he could have avoided that, but it would have been interesting to see him as a guy that could actually make other players better. But both him and Carter came into the league when it was all about the streetball and style over substance. It hurt a good number of players to think that way.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 691
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
And the management here during Bosh's time WASN'T bullshit?

At least GG knew how to build around VC... and went out and got players that knew how to win.

Can you honestly say the same about BC after watching the last 4-5 years?
You gotta be kidding me. Vince left because they wanted to rebuild, the president said they were going to get Steve Nash and some other good players but instead they drafted shitty Rafael Araújo and completely ignored getting players like Nash, so VC got pissed and left. Its not carters fault for leaving, blame it on the management. As for Bosh who gives a shit about him, hes nobody who won jack shit.
JackAstors is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,432
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
GG put this team in cap hell and never got VC that secondary scorer. He didn't trade T-Mac when he had the chance at the deadline thus not maximizing on an asset.

GG tried to hit a home run or something with the Jalen Rose trade but that was a catastrophe. We relied on VC too often to carry this team.

You gotta stop looking at things not BC with rose colored glasses.
Oh make no mistake... I'm not saying that GG was the end all and be all of NBA GMs.... but he seemed to have a better understanding of what it took to win games.

The Raptor team that he built (that was within a shot of the EC Finals) was built around toughness, defense, rebounding and strong veteran leadership. We also had a core that played together for a few years.

Very different from the revolving door of scrubs and castoffs who have come through here since then.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
adoring his baby girl.

Senior Member
 
Sick, Wicked and Nasty!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada eh?
Posts: 3,288
Representing:
Default

I think we should be talking about why Cleveland can't keep it's stars? Toronto has tried to build teams around guys that weren't capable of leading us to the promised land and when that failed over many years they wanted to leave. I don't see anything the franchise has done wrong other than try to build around whiners like Vince or tier 2 guys like Bosh.

Cleveland on the other hand did everything right building a really good team, favoured in the east to win it all around Lebron but still he left. I'm sure Cleveland's a nice city too...but to me this is a much bigger story.
Sick, Wicked and Nasty! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 21,755
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Oh make no mistake... I'm not saying that GG was the end all and be all of NBA GMs.... but he seemed to have a better understanding of what it took to win games.

The Raptor team that he built (that was within a shot of the EC Finals) was built around toughness, defense, rebounding and strong veteran leadership. We also had a core that played together for a few years.

Very different from the revolving door of scrubs and castoffs who have come through here since then.
I'm not a huge BC fan and I really like Grunwald, but I'm going to say you're a little off the mark with your first statement. The Suns won a lot more under Colangelo in a much tougher Western Conference than GG's Raptors ever did.

Also GG doomed the team with awful long term contracts and some very questionable draft selections (Radojevic, Bradley and Jefferies and not one second round pick to ever suit up for the team).
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,131
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
I'm not a huge BC fan and I really like Grunwald, but I'm going to say you're a little off the mark with your first statement. The Suns won a lot more under Colangelo in a much tougher Western Conference than GG's Raptors ever did.
Come on, you should know by now. That was all his daddy..
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
------------------------

Senior Member
 
XiaominWu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,429
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Oh make no mistake... I'm not saying that GG was the end all and be all of NBA GMs.... but he seemed to have a better understanding of what it took to win games.
well, duh..... of course you aren't saying that.






















that's rob babcock.
XiaominWu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,771
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
I'm sure Cleveland's a nice city too...
You're sure about that?
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 691
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
Cleveland on the other hand did everything right building a really good team, favoured in the east to win it all around Lebron but still he left. I'm sure Cleveland's a nice city too...but to me this is a much bigger story.

JackAstors is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,131
Representing:
Default



I love this guy......get him in Toronto, NOW!!!


"It's all factories". lol
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24