Ridiculousness.
Old 08-14-2013, 09:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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Default Ridiculousness.

I many not be as well versed in the CBA and cap/tax strategy as some, but I do know life as a Toronto fan.

Regardless, please allow me some ridiculousness.

I am still for a steady re-build, hoping free agents like us and hoping we draft well (even though we haven't even started tanking yet).

In all of our efforts to attract and maintain stars, we have failed ridiculously. And although we expect MU to work miracles, if we end up with a 14th pick in the draft, I'm not expecting a franchise player.

But we do have one thing available at our disposal that 90% of the teams out there will not....Gobs and gobs of ridiculous money.

An arena shared with a hockey team that nets a good 100 million in profits, an ownership that makes about 4 billion in profits and will likely make more on the sports content they own that may not appear in their accounting.

And now a guy in control who has a huge ego, seems to be allowed to do whatever he wants and only cares about championships.



I'm proposing as an alternative that right after this "evaluation", the organization commits to a good 5 years of being open to ridiculous spending that only a handful of teams are willing to match. OKC couldn't afford Harden under the old system. The new system is harsher. Who knows what might shake out for those willing to spend.

Ridiculous spending does not have to be stupid Hedo Turkoglu money. Back when the Raptors where a playoff team, they could have upgraded a couple of positions with spending, but did not. Chris Bosh pretty much tossed that in their faces on his way out.

This is just an example of what I'm looking for....

Finding a way to spend enough ridiculous money to make Rudy Gay (at a more reasonable contract) and JV your second tier options Demar and Amir your 6th and 7th men and high level take-over studs at the 2 and 4.

e.g.

Lowry/draft
$$$/Demar/Ross
Gay/$$$/Ross
$$$/Amir/Acy
JV/$$$/vet

Do smart player personnel moves but open the vault!

We may very well clear the roster, look to the draft and end up drafting younger versions of Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry and DD.

I say we keep them as part of a strong core and figure out how to add to them. Why not use a weapon we really haven't so far? The ridicuolous tax.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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We have to tank pretty hard for a pick. Our 2014 pick is Houston's no, top 2 protected, no?
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
finding your post helpful

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We have to tank pretty hard for a pick. Our 2014 pick is Houston's no, top 2 protected, no?
nope I think there's a conditional 2nd rounder from sac though
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Does the ownership make 4 bil in profits?
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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Does the ownership make 4 bil in profits?
I haven't read their books, but between them in all their ventures, I understand about 4 bil. And I can see why they overpaid for MLSE




I see 2.352 bil for just Rogers before tax.


Rogers Communications Inc.
Unaudited Consolidated Statements of Income
(In millions of Canadian dollars, except per share amounts)


Three months ended Twelve months ended
December 31, December 31,
2012 2011 2012 2011

Operating revenue $ 3,261 $ 3,155 $ 12,486 $ 12,346

Operating expenses:
Operating costs 2,142 2,088 7,729 7,682
Integration, restructuring and acquisition costs 10 20 92 56
Depreciation and amortization 453 454 1,819 1,743
Impairment of assets 80 - 80 -

Operating income 576 593 2,766 2,865

Finance costs (176) (158) (664) (738)
Other income (expense), net 4 (6) 15 1
Share of the income of associates and joint ventures 237 3 235 7

Income before income taxes 641 432 2,352 2,135


http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/rog...032100108.html

Last edited by Deez; 08-14-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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We have to tank pretty hard for a pick. Our 2014 pick is Houston's no, top 2 protected, no?
You're living in last year. The pick to Houston got conveyed (to OKC) last draft. The Lowry trade is done now.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You're living in last year. The pick to Houston got conveyed (to OKC) last draft. The Lowry trade is done now.
I thought they got 3 picks? Or do they get whatever one of the conditions happened first?
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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No just 1 pick. This ain't Brian Burke.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ammo View Post
I many not be as well versed in the CBA and cap/tax strategy as some, but I do know life as a Toronto fan.

Regardless, please allow me some ridiculousness.

I am still for a steady re-build, hoping free agents like us and hoping we draft well (even though we haven't even started tanking yet).

In all of our efforts to attract and maintain stars, we have failed ridiculously. And although we expect MU to work miracles, if we end up with a 14th pick in the draft, I'm not expecting a franchise player.

But we do have one thing available at our disposal that 90% of the teams out there will not....Gobs and gobs of ridiculous money.

An arena shared with a hockey team that nets a good 100 million in profits, an ownership that makes about 4 billion in profits and will likely make more on the sports content they own that may not appear in their accounting.

And now a guy in control who has a huge ego, seems to be allowed to do whatever he wants and only cares about championships.



I'm proposing as an alternative that right after this "evaluation", the organization commits to a good 5 years of being open to ridiculous spending that only a handful of teams are willing to match. OKC couldn't afford Harden under the old system. The new system is harsher. Who knows what might shake out for those willing to spend.

Ridiculous spending does not have to be stupid Hedo Turkoglu money. Back when the Raptors where a playoff team, they could have upgraded a couple of positions with spending, but did not. Chris Bosh pretty much tossed that in their faces on his way out.

This is just an example of what I'm looking for....

Finding a way to spend enough ridiculous money to make Rudy Gay (at a more reasonable contract) and JV your second tier options Demar and Amir your 6th and 7th men and high level take-over studs at the 2 and 4.

e.g.

Lowry/draft
$$$/Demar/Ross
Gay/$$$/Ross
$$$/Amir/Acy
JV/$$$/vet


Do smart player personnel moves but open the vault!

We may very well clear the roster, look to the draft and end up drafting younger versions of Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry and DD.

I say we keep them as part of a strong core and figure out how to add to them. Why not use a weapon we really haven't so far? The ridicuolous tax.
Having money to pay tax doesn't mean we can sign players over the cap..
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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Having money to pay tax doesn't mean we can sign players over the cap..
I understand, but it may mean they can wriggle their way into higher contracts and better players, since MU says part of his job is to keep on bugging other GMs. That's why I am talking about commiting to spend over the next few years while MU and TL are here. How many more OKCs are going to be poached with a stricter CBA? OKC may never win a championship because they don't have/won't spend the money.

Didn't take long for Brooklyn to become sexy because they opened the vault. We don't have to follow their plan, but I think this organization should spend big time.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Very lol. A publically corporation does not have ridiculous money. It has share holders that in this case expect dividends (and since I own stock in both I do love the dividend). They can only overpend if it has a return on investment. Which they will but if a playoff game makes them 2 million (one gate, one TV). then they will analyze in great detail how far that spending goes. they will not overspend to get a free agent just to see them spend. In other words, they will be middle of the road getting over the tax but not spend the most in the league... it aint jersey.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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I think a case can be made that a winning team with real buzz instead of disgrace is worth much more than the playoff gate.

Turning 200,000 TV eyeballs into 700,000......selling more tickets and boxes......real value of being aligned with a brand that is a winner........and the fact that they haven't started really holding us hostage to watch games since they now own access to those games.

What is 20 mil to corporations that make 4 bil? And what does it really take to make that back if they are being honest. They don't even have to pay for the type of advertising and promotion they will do by owning these teams.

And the real LOL is continually stating you want to win a championship while being the 4th largest market in North America and clutching your purse.

They didn't need to spend 110 mil (like Brooklyn) while Bosh was here and they were a playoff team. They needed to get serious and expect to spend enough to make Bosh part of a winning core instead of making him lead them nowhere alongside sub-par talent.

Just another opinion, but in this era where superteams are likely to keep forming in sexier cities (who usually spend) I think you gotta join in, just do it smartly.

Last edited by Deez; 08-15-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I see 2.352 bil for just Rogers before tax.
Ridiculous.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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"I many not be as well versed in the CBA and cap/tax strategy as some"

You need to actually have cap space and be below the cap to do the "ridiculous spending" which is being spoken of. There is the bi-annual exception and the mini-mle which is offered if the team is at the luxury tax. The only other thing is a ridiculous amount of sign and trades which is doubtful. This isn't baseball nor soccer where $$$ just does the talking. There are actually some rules in place. Not as strict as hockey but still present.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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"I many not be as well versed in the CBA and cap/tax strategy as some"

You need to actually have cap space and be below the cap to do the "ridiculous spending" which is being spoken of. There is the bi-annual exception and the mini-mle which is offered if the team is at the luxury tax. The only other thing is a ridiculous amount of sign and trades which is doubtful. This isn't baseball nor soccer where $$$ just does the talking. There are actually some rules in place. Not as strict as hockey but still present.
You're talking about right now. I'm talking about during the time TL and MU have using spending as an advantage after evaluating
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
"I many not be as well versed in the CBA and cap/tax strategy as some"

You need to actually have cap space and be below the cap to do the "ridiculous spending" which is being spoken of. There is the bi-annual exception and the mini-mle which is offered if the team is at the luxury tax. The only other thing is a ridiculous amount of sign and trades which is doubtful. This isn't baseball nor soccer where $$$ just does the talking. There are actually some rules in place. Not as strict as hockey but still present.
Just a note, no BAE for tax apron teams.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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You're talking about right now. I'm talking about during the time TL and MU have using spending as an advantage after evaluating
You still have KL, RG (at least 10 million) and DD on the roster in that lineup that you proposed. Add to the fact that JV is going to make some serious more $ in a few years.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Just a note, no BAE for tax apron teams.
even better
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:58 AM   #19 (permalink)
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This is the NBA. Some other teams have found ways to flex financial muscle. If its not even an option to some teams, why not consider it. Iits above my pay grade to work out that plan. Oh wait. I'm not being paid.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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That starting lineup alone is anywhere from 40-60 million. Yup - not a lot of flexibility to work with.
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